I'm clicking the "retire" button on Civ VII

No, I understood the point being made. Once again, I feel like I disagree. I don't understand why it's so controversial.

Do I gave to play CoD to know it's an FPS mostly set in the modern day?

Do critics of Civ VII have to play Civ VII? Many of them on this forum don't!

What a strange prerequisite.

My point was just that there is different rationale behind each decision. That's all. Feel free to disagree. Or take it to PM with me, whichever you prefer. I'm offline for a few hours regardless :)

You literally said that you were’nt a Fallout player and may have gotten the title mixed up with something else. Your words.

Despite clearly not even knowing what Fallout76 is or why it was such a debacle you confidently stated that the two situations are not comparable. You then doubled down on it, and are now trying to subjectivly generalize agree to dosagree your way out of it now that you’ve been called on it

The unit teleport is definitely the worst discontinuity... I would change how units specifically are handled so that

Late Age (70%,80%,90% Age completion): Military units not in friendly territory cost additional Maintenance (+20%, +50%, +100%) and reduced Healing (-1,-3,-5)
**so you want to move them back**

On Transition:
Every Unit you have at the end of the age adds a small lump sum Gold & more Gold limit to the carry over

Units aren’t deleted instead they become “Obsolete”/”Ceremonial”:
Upgrading an “Obsolete” units to Tier 1 costs about the same as buying a Tier 1 (But you get a fixed number of free upgrades.. 5 per age? So 10 and 15?….Free upgrades in excess of unit number give free Infantry units.)
Obsolete units could also be disbanded at home for small amount of: Gold, Sci, Culture, Food, Happiness, or Influence (?Depending on Government?)

No Unit Teleport: Except Commanders who get to Choose the Settlement/Water District to they will start the next Age in. (Carrying any units they have)
(this means while you do have to retreat Commanders from the Front, you get a chance to reposition your forces)

**Choosing where it goes should also apply to the Exploration Cog**

You should get to make a New Greeting to all the empires you already know… allowing a chance for a diplomatic reconfiguration
If the Age ended with 2 players at war, then if either of them gives the Negative greeting, they are still at War, but War Support is reset and choosing the Negative greeting gives the other player some War Support (if they both choose Negative then it balances out with Neutral War Support)


This way there is still that reconfiguration/rebalancing but
Units you built give you some benefit
Units don't randomly get Teleported (only commanders get Teleported and not Randomly)
Wars don't end unless both sides are OK with it ending.

Oh My Fracking God the idiotic unit teleportation in Civ6 makes me rage at least once literally every time I play it. It’s a moronic concept to begin with, but they really went out of theit way to implement it in the stupidest way they possibly could.

So of course they continued it for Civ76. Because of course they did.
 
You literally said that you were’nt a Fallout player and may have gotten the title mixed up with something else. Your words.

Despite clearly not even knowing what Fallout76 is or why it was such a debacle you confidently stated that the two situations are not comparable. You then doubled down on it, and are now trying to subjectivly generalize agree to dosagree your way out of it now that you’ve been called on it
I'm sorry for not being clear. I meant I might've gotten the management of the game mixed up with another. I know the games themselves, even if I don't play them.

I then looked it up and found all the things I already mentioned (it began as a game mode for Fallout 4 before being spun out to its own game). I really don't get why you think you've got me dead to rights or whatever.

I maintain that the management of Fallout 76 and the management of Civ VII are very different things, and the things you don't like here have a different root cause to what you think.

Think of it this way. Your perspective of both games is rooted in your (lack of) enjoyment of them as a player. I enjoy Civ VII, so my relationship of it as a player is different to yours. But neither are relevant to why the developers chose to go the route they did. Versus the developers of Fallout 76 originally developing it as a game mode for Fallout 4.
 
The unit teleport is definitely the worst discontinuity... I would change how units specifically are handled so that

Late Age (70%,80%,90% Age completion): Military units not in friendly territory cost additional Maintenance (+20%, +50%, +100%) and reduced Healing (-1,-3,-5)
**so you want to move them back**

On Transition:
Every Unit you have at the end of the age adds a small lump sum Gold & more Gold limit to the carry over

Units aren’t deleted instead they become “Obsolete”/”Ceremonial”:
Upgrading an “Obsolete” units to Tier 1 costs about the same as buying a Tier 1 (But you get a fixed number of free upgrades.. 5 per age? So 10 and 15?….Free upgrades in excess of unit number give free Infantry units.)
Obsolete units could also be disbanded at home for small amount of: Gold, Sci, Culture, Food, Happiness, or Influence (?Depending on Government?)

No Unit Teleport: Except Commanders who get to Choose the Settlement/Water District to they will start the next Age in. (Carrying any units they have)
(this means while you do have to retreat Commanders from the Front, you get a chance to reposition your forces)

**Choosing where it goes should also apply to the Exploration Cog**

You should get to make a New Greeting to all the empires you already know… allowing a chance for a diplomatic reconfiguration
If the Age ended with 2 players at war, then if either of them gives the Negative greeting, they are still at War, but War Support is reset and choosing the Negative greeting gives the other player some War Support (if they both choose Negative then it balances out with Neutral War Support)


This way there is still that reconfiguration/rebalancing but
Units you built give you some benefit
Units don't randomly get Teleported (only commanders get Teleported and not Randomly)
Wars don't end unless both sides are OK with it ending.

Can't say I love all your ideas, but just chiming in to say that the unit teleport, and to a lesser extent, the unit type changing, are the most infuriating part of age transition by far. Just makes me want to quit for the day. Sometimes I do, and then load in and see that mess and don't even want to play.

Someone had a good piece of advice I read earlier, which was to go ahead and play a few turns so you're not angry all over again when you come back. I'm going to start doing that.
 
Can't say I love all your ideas, but just chiming in to say that the unit teleport, and to a lesser extent, the unit type changing, are the most infuriating part of age transition by far. Just makes me want to quit for the day. Sometimes I do, and then load in and see that mess and don't even want to play.

Someone had a good piece of advice I read earlier, which was to go ahead and play a few turns so you're not angry all over again when you come back. I'm going to start doing that.

In 6 you can somewhat avoid or amelorate the stupidity of this, but a developer fiat era change you cannot
 
It's basically a form of post modernism where the concept of a separate civilization is being diluted on purpose. In Civ 8/9 by endgame all borders will be erased and replaced with new economic zones as "social movements" and corporations replace governments..... and I only half joke about this cause I can see it happening. Rip Civilization long live Civilization.

Basically, the Civ games have always played fast and loose with the words 'Civilization', 'State', 'Nation', 'Government', and 'People', and that is making for some issues when they change the relationship between these things. This is not post-modernism, though. That is an entirely different concept.

The fact that states have always been made up of multiple ethnicities (also called nations, or tribes, depending on size), and that their ethnic makeup changes over time is not a post-modern idea. However, during the formation of the modern world, it was often rejected during the reification of the nation-state - a state that is made up of one nation (ethnicity). It is true that in recent years this has moved, in history, from a somewhat controversial position to the standard one, but this is not post-modernism. Post-modernism is very hard to define, since it is in part about rejecting grand narratives and definitions, but it's definitely not what happened after modernity. The only academic historians I know of who maintain that states are, and should, be made of one nation are those who sell themselves for views and book sales. Grifters, basically. But this has come at a time where some academically accepted facts are controversial in some places, and Civ 7 has definitely caught the ire of some 'historians' who would also reject the multiple nations within Rome, Greece, Assyria, Russia, China, Japan, England, America, France, Spain etc etc.

With Civ 7, Civ has become more historically accurate. BUT it's not necessarily explaining that well, with them describing switching Civilizations rather than the well-documented process of one nation rising in power within a state, and describing it as an abrupt change rather than a period of flux.

A big problem is that they have to time-skip at least some amount, because the nations within your state are not simulated in the game. I think they skip too much time, and the cut-scene and info screens between eras should be much more detailed about the historical processes they're trying to simulate.

'With the fall of the Empire, your people stopped thinking of themselves as Roman, and the wealth and prosperity of the Abbasids made them rise from a minor part of the Empire to the most powerful nation...' Except that the next part needs to be a fictional fusion of the real histories of Rome and the Abbasids, requiring more reading than almost anyone wants to do between parts of a game, and requiring more writing than Firaxis can do, since they can't even do bugfixes and updates well right now.

At a minimum, they need a bespoke transition narrative between each Civ change, even from The Normans to the French. Then maybe people would accept era changes.
 
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The unit teleport is definitely the worst discontinuity... I would change how units specifically are handled so that

Late Age (70%,80%,90% Age completion): Military units not in friendly territory cost additional Maintenance (+20%, +50%, +100%) and reduced Healing (-1,-3,-5)
**so you want to move them back**

On Transition:
Every Unit you have at the end of the age adds a small lump sum Gold & more Gold limit to the carry over

Units aren’t deleted instead they become “Obsolete”/”Ceremonial”:
Upgrading an “Obsolete” units to Tier 1 costs about the same as buying a Tier 1 (But you get a fixed number of free upgrades.. 5 per age? So 10 and 15?….Free upgrades in excess of unit number give free Infantry units.)
Obsolete units could also be disbanded at home for small amount of: Gold, Sci, Culture, Food, Happiness, or Influence (?Depending on Government?)

No Unit Teleport: Except Commanders who get to Choose the Settlement/Water District to they will start the next Age in. (Carrying any units they have)
(this means while you do have to retreat Commanders from the Front, you get a chance to reposition your forces)

**Choosing where it goes should also apply to the Exploration Cog**

You should get to make a New Greeting to all the empires you already know… allowing a chance for a diplomatic reconfiguration
If the Age ended with 2 players at war, then if either of them gives the Negative greeting, they are still at War, but War Support is reset and choosing the Negative greeting gives the other player some War Support (if they both choose Negative then it balances out with Neutral War Support)


This way there is still that reconfiguration/rebalancing but
Units you built give you some benefit
Units don't randomly get Teleported (only commanders get Teleported and not Randomly)
Wars don't end unless both sides are OK with it ending.

Yeah these are great ideas. The era change is way too abrupt, even though history dorks like me get what they're trying to do. But you generate buy-in through multiple paths, and the bugs and QA issues have made it even harder to get buy-in for the jumps between eras.

Ideally, they'd do a huge patch to improve era changes, but since their coding team seems to currently be 3 people and a really cute dog, they don't have the ability to do that right now, if ever.
 
It's a matter of the sacred and the profane.

Firaxis has profaned the sacred.

It's the same as it is every time that an adaption disrespects the source material. People pretend to not understand why everyone is so upset.... but they don't really listen to what they are told. And I am tired of this stupid thread going nowhere..... let it all burn. I will stick to my spoon and fork, you use your stupid spork.

Is this satire?
 
Is this satire?
I deleted a previous edition of this post, but I will reply in support of Rambo

Imagine a series of equations for the sake of an analogy:

Metal + Rap = Nu-Metal
Civ + Humankind = Civ 7

If Civ is Metal and Humankind is Rap,

Civ Fanatics are Metalheads

Civ 7 is Nu-metal, and this is a forum of Metalheads...

 
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don't insult the player by trying to feed him like a toddler while telling him what a genius he is

This should be an inscription on every wall in FXS's and 2K's HQs, and on the sides and bottoms of their mugs, plates, etc. Maybe T-shirts even.

That is also why I uninstalled Civ6 quite a while ago, and Civ7 is the next candidate, when I need more space on my HD.
 
I really enjoyed workers myself. I understand many view workers as introducing a lot of micromanagement and frequently there were very obvious decisions to make with them, but in my own odd way I enjoyed that level of detail. It was enjoyable shuffling them around the map and watching them labor away on projects.
I enjoyed the level of control workers provided over the construction of infrastructure, but do agree with what seems to be the prevailing sentiment that managing them could get tedious. My preference would've been a compromise where workers are abstracted, players can create "great civic works" where they select tile(s) that they want to improve and then fund that improvement through a city project. These improvements would then build automatically as fast or slow as project resources are assigned to them, construction could get interrupted if hostile units are on the affected tiles, and would be a supplementary system to the improvements that are created "organically" rather than a replacement system.
 
Sometimes I do, and then load in and see that mess and don't even want to play.
I think there is an emotional response to age transitions which most players seem to feel. There is this sense that the game just took your stuff and 'messed it up' and now you need to spend time starting from scratch and tidying it all up again, just to get back to where you were.

For me, if Firaxis are going to fix the game, that is the feeling they need to get rid of.

If I have built this lovely antiquity age civ that I am kind of proud of, that looks nice, is bringing in some beautiful yields. If I have this army I have constructed that feels very powerful and I have sacrificed money and effort into building... then how am I meant to feel if the game just arbitrarily takes it all away and leaves me with something worse. I could deal with that if there were events in the game that meant I needed to downgrade or retreat slightly (which I guess is what they imagined crises to do, and one reason why turning them off might make the game even worse) but to just hit a switch and 'bye bye' all your nice stuff simply feels horrible.
 
I really enjoyed workers myself. I understand many view workers as introducing a lot of micromanagement and frequently there were very obvious decisions to make with them, but in my own odd way I enjoyed that level of detail. It was enjoyable shuffling them around the map and watching them labor away on projects.

...and to add to this: It is nice to catch the workers of other civs (at least in Civ 3). :) Civ 4 made a good decision in giving workers two MV points, reducing micromanagement massively as moving the worker and starting the worker job now was possible in the same turn.
 
"With Civ 7, Civ has become more historically accurate"

Now that's a statement I hear on occasion and IMHO , it's nonsense .

Civ switching is at it's core a means to sell more packs , to fit in with the smaller less complex 3 in 1 mini board game .

I said my reasoning. You didn't quote it, and seem to have ignored it. So calling it 'nonsense' is not compelling.
 
I think the biggest problem is just how boring it is. I can live with a lot of bugs and jank, but the gameplay completeley fails to capture my interest. After more than 2k hours in each of V and VI, I didn't think it was possible for a new Civ title to bore me to this extent, but VII does. It's just so painfully dull and uninspiring. There's something about it that totally lacks the soul and charm of its predecessors.
 
I don't find it boring, at least not most aspects of the game, just a few things I find boring. I find it can be fairly addicting in a couple ways. But that's once I start playing. When I'm not playing, sometimes I just don't get excited to start a new game. Most of my games I go through the same exact tech paths. The only difference is I may do sailing early depending on my starting location. It's just not as fun as Civ 6.
 
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