I'm sorry but....Combat results aren't fair!

[puglover]

They are fair. Sometimes in history, battles don't end like they should. Like the battle of Thermoplye (sp?) where the Greek Hoplite on the Hill city of Thermoplye killed 5 Immortals before dying.

 

[warpstorm]

Originally posted by Iztvan
I'm with you. But, since the random numbers are generated in advance, and only get used up when something random happens, the same random number would be saved for the next attack desicion if the AI decided not to attack due to precognition.

Random numbers aren't generated in advance. Nearly all pseudo-random number generators work on a seed concept. The seed is the start number of a sequence of numbers. It is fed into a (usually) fairly simple formula which gives you the next random number and the next seed. A random number is only generated when one is needed.

 

[Veers]

Imagine, a new Abrams tank rolling into town and suddenly, a spearman from thousands of years ago runs up, sticks it once or twice with his wooden spear, and suddenly the tank explodes. That's what Civ III wants you to believe, just like Civ I. It's impossible - a spearman, in our world, would run in terror from a tank. In Civ world, their victories produce Great Leaders. It’s called cheating or rewriting the rules. But whatever the name, like I’ve said before, the player eventually can’t be beat. The developers know this.

 

[Speaker]

Originally posted by Veers
Imagine, a new Abrams tank rolling into town and suddenly, a spearman from thousands of years ago runs up, sticks it once or twice with his wooden spear, and suddenly the tank explodes.

We're complaining about this now? What if the spearman came up behind the tank, opened the top and stabbed the drivers? Or what iv the spearman set up some sort of roadblock that caused the tank to drive off a cliff. What if the spearman plugged the front of the tank with cement. The RNG is what it is. Deal with it.

 

[warpstorm]

What if the spearmen were in fact good looking women who distracted the tank crew long enough to kill them?

I've lost exactly one tank to a spearman (who to give him credit was fortified in a city). I think that makes it Tanks 5000 - Spearman 1 for me so far.

 

[Speaker]

Originally posted by warpstorm
What if the spearmen were in fact good looking women who distracted the tank crew long enough to kill them?

Ok Warpstorm, let's try to stay within the realm of possibility.

 

[Veers]

I can deal with a lot, Speaker but not spearmen defeating tanks. That's like saying the space shuttle could find a way to defeat the Enterprise. No sir, it was meant to handicap the player and nothing more. There is no logic to it - - - - trying to explain it what they want. And did you ever consider that those tanks locked their hatches in case those pesky spearman were to show up?

 

[Speaker]

Locks fail. I mean, really, to "handicap the player?" I personally have never lost a tank to a spearman and sincerely doubt that it has ever happened to anyone more than a couple of times. In a game of odds, and that's what the RNG is, implausible events do happen. I suppose it's cheating when someone wins the lottery?

 

[Speaker]

And if your strategy is really handicapped by losing a single tank to a spearman every 50 games, you should probably take a look at the War Academy or the SG forum.

 

[Veers]

OK Speaker...I will admit that locks can fail and even a spearman can defeat an Abrams tank. But remember, the creators of Civ see us as Berman and Lucas do. They love the cash but hate the fans…I can only imagine was Civ IV has in store for us. Civ III is a perfect example of this - - - again, no army would build units that cannot destroy their target.

 

[Veers]

I don't need the war academy...like you said, it hardly happens but it does occur. I took what you said in stride about the spearman but there is no excuse for bombardment.

 

[Speaker]

Originally posted by Veers
But remember, the creators of Civ see us as Berman and Lucas do. They love the cash but hate the fans…I can only imagine was Civ IV has in store for us. Civ III is a perfect example of this - - -

A perfect example of what? I have played hundreds of hours of Civ3 and Civ3 PTW. Do I begrudge Sid or Firaxis for anything? Absolutely not. The amount of enjoyment I have gotten from this amazing game, which I have played for nearly two years is ridiculous.

 

[Veers]

I've had hours on enjoyment too but that still doesn't make it right. Bombers and artillery are perfectly capable of destroying their targets. But this is not the case in Civ III.......why? To handicap the player.

 

[Speaker]

Jeez. Artillery is already too powerful as it is. A stack of 100 artillery, which I often have in the end game, is already automatic death. If Artillery could kill, why would you build anything else? They do not risk themselves when attacking.

 

[Veers]

OK, OK, you win. I give up, but you have to send infantry in to take the city. Is that what you mean? If I'm not mistaken, artillery is manned by soldiers. Soldiers who can take cities - - - -

 

[warpstorm]

Veers, this is in keeping with modern military doctrine. Bombers and artillery soften up the targets, infantry and marines take the sites and hold them. Arty can be easily overrun if not supported by the 'grunts'.

 

[Veers]

I'd like to hear this from Jeff Atari but I see what you're saying...to a degree. Bombers can destroy a target and ground troops should occupy. That's more like it. In this game, they can't kill - - that's unrealistic.

 

[Beanzy]

Veers, first of all, a single unit in Civ is not necessarily one unit in real life, therefore, whenever it is weakened, you can consider it as soldiers dying. (Besides, you can kill the populace of a city with artillery). Secondly, even in real life, there can be a statistical anomolly in which a major underdog wins. Besides, how do you know the Spearman doesn't jump out from behind a corner and shove his little spear down the gun mounted on the tank. The second the tank fires, that little piece of wood and bronze will force the shell to explode inside poor Mr. Tank. There is always an explanation for unexpected occurances.

 

[Pembroke]

I remember someone proposing that the best way to end the endless spearman vs. tank debate would be to change the spearman graphics in the industrial/modern era so that he was wielding a molotov cocktail.

At least that's how I have always interpreted it: ancient units in more modern eras just represent troops with poor-quality equipment. Like, for example, a bunch of farmers taking their varmint rifles and trying for a shot at the invaders. And plenty of examples of such things actually working in the recent history, too.

 

[Mark Young]

Originally posted by warpstorm
What if the spearmen were in fact good looking women who distracted the tank crew long enough to kill them?

Now thats what I call "Shock and awe".