Immortal Elizabeth NTB ISO game for non specialists

chinemol

Warlord
Joined
Jul 25, 2020
Messages
131
Location
Argentina
Needed a rest form a game, but wanted to play. Rolled a no tech brokering game and turned out to be a nice ISO Elizabeth game. The settings turn it into a more forgiving map and the leader is among the best for isolation
If played, remember to add barb techs and to change your name, it was set to Wang when launched
Worldbuilder and T0 save, BUG mod
Civ4ScreenShot0047.JPG
 

Attachments

Nice. If that landmass on the right is separate from the one you start on, GLH would be really strong. Although you also start with stone. Kinda like with that De Gaulle game, it's about choosing one's wonders wisely.
 
I will keep hating on The Great Lighthouse for isolation. I especailly don't want a Great Merchant for isolation and with philosophical we cannot avoid getting one.
 
I will keep hating on The Great Lighthouse for isolation. I especailly don't want a Great Merchant for isolation and with philosophical we cannot avoid getting one.
IMHO this is somewhat exaggerated. What we really want are two scientists to bulb Astro, and with PHI it is easily possible to make the second and third great people scientists. Granted, one more scientists for an academy would also be really nice, but a merchant does have some uses on iso, e.g. upgrading to cannons sooner.

With overseas trade routes available I think that a merchant + GLH outperforms an early scientist (edit: if used for an academy, not if used for bulbing astro). (regarding post-Astro attack date)
 
Using a Great Merchant to bulb Metal Casting is perfectly fine, if you can generate 3 GP by Optics (and with PHI that's no problem). A 3rd GS bulbing Optics generates more beakers, but you have to research extra techs to unlock that bulb.

In this particular case...

Spoiler Turn 77 :

If you want Pyramids, you need to settle an island city for the stone, and if we're going to settle island cities anyway...

This is turn 76 Pyramids (screenshot taken a turn later after revolting to Rep) after a turn 63 GLH. Those timings could be a bit late on deity, but fairly safe on immortal.

liz_iso_950bc.png


Even without knowing about the copper, I think Bronze Working first is the way to go. Settle 1N on PH for a turn 13 worker, who mines a grass hill, then the copper, then starts chopping. Hunting->AH after BW. (You could argue for sailing before to connect the 2nd city... I preferred to improve the pig earlier, and we need to build a lot of fogbusting / city garrison warriors before Sailing anyway. Important to not road the copper to keep warriors available.) Masonry after Sailing, and only then Wheel->Pottery->Writing (paused research after ~turn 70 writing).

Capital builds workboat after worker, it's done turn 23, then starts a 2nd workboat until size 3 for the western fish (but put chops into settler). Revolt to slavery when settler is on its way, then built 6 warriors between the two cities (lost 1 while fogbusting). After Sailing, London builds lighthouse into Great Lighthouse, whereas York whips its lighthouse and eventually settlers for the island cities. Unfortunately due to that barb city spawn, my stone city had to take the capital's clams instead of the clams to its northeast. On the main island I managed to avoid barb cities except one at the very northwestern tip.

Obviously that investment may delay the Astro date due to the later libraries, we'll see if that was worth it. I would note the land on our island is not particularly great. There is one very good city spot (fish, wheat and river, then pig after border pop), but it is very far north. That is probably the only other one I would settle pre-Astro. In between, you have that jungle belt with no food outside sugar and an ivory city that would not be a great investment just to get that extra point of happiness.
 
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What about the opening? Settling 1N seems like a no-brainer. And then, worker first going BW and chop out a boat, or hard-building a boat first while working a forested hill and eventually the stone?
 
Hard-building the boat first is a lot better, I did worker first in my game, but it was a mistake. All I got from it is one extra grass mine. Trying again workboat first, I got the 2nd city at the same time but a lot more science.
 
T78 (Immortal)
Spoiler :

My initial expansion was a little slow, but now I have the Mids and settled the island without getting overrun by barbs (I managed to spawn bust the island before any barb spawned). Galleys can also not spawn around that island. My slider is really on 0 waiting for London to finish the library, I left it on 100 to show gpt. The GLH is still up for grabs and I'm very much thinking of using that GE to rush it. All in all that sets me up for a solid game. I will probably settle 1 or 2 more cities (the elephant spot is next, and I might settle the 1 tile island spot if I get GLH) before calling it a day and teching towards Optics. A number of cities can run specialists and we're Philo, so hopefully I can get 3 GS to bulb Optics and Astro.

Btw, I have a worker standing on the plains hill next to Hastings. York is waiting to whip a third one.

Civ4ScreenShot0162.JPG

 
Played to 325AD (immortal)

Spoiler :

Got a Great Merchant from the GLH who bulbed Metal Casting, just in time for triremes to push back the barbarian galleys harassing my cities. Then it was just teching towards Optics while making sure to time the libraries for two GS before London got another GP. I settled city 5 (Canterbury) for the fish/wheat/pig/iron cluster.

Got Optics in 75 BC, got a few techs from trade (main ones being Alphabet, Monarchy and Construction), and self-teched Math->Calendar to double bulb Astro in 175 AD. Now I finished Code of Laws and will proceed to settle 3 more cities in the northern part of the island that need artists to reach 2nd-ring seafood, for 10 cities total. (I could have settled Warwick next to the clams, but it's better to get more rivers this way now that we have CoL.)

London will get a random GP next turn, I could use a Golden Age for a free switch to Caste System, and eventually Civil Service if I go that way, but I have to calculate if it's worth it vs. just a trade mission (if Great Merchant) or a bulb. I only have 2 cities with 2+ good food tiles (Canterbury of course, and York if it takes the capital's pigs), so that's probably at most 2 GS (500 and 600 GPP) during a Golden Age or shortly after.

I should probably build a few catapults and swords to take that double-seafood barb city on the island (Khoisan). The long-term plan is open; with that much land to develop and already being ahead of the AI, I'm tempted to just go all the way to state property rather than trying to rush Cuirs or something.

liz_iso_325ad.png

 
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Gotta prioritize Pyramids first, right? It solves the happiness problem. GLH sometimes goes very late so there's probably a chance to still get it too.
 
The water does make it a little awkward. You essentially need the same techs here for Pyramids as for GLH. Probably sailing first and then build a galley while teching Masonry. Practically the same as building a LH while teching Masonry, and then you also have to send a couple of workers across to improve the stone which is going to take like 4 more turns.

I dunno.. I'm waffling a bit on this one.

Edit: That's assuming thats an island. If not and there's a way around via land that doesn't waste tons of worker tons, it might not be so bad.
 
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Another interesting decision (that I'm not sure I understand that well) is how to prioritize citizens once you have Representation with the Pyramids, because you have so many good options as FIN/PHI. You can grow on coast, you can grow on grass cottages that are initially underwhelming (1 commerce) but will equal coast in 10 turns and then beat it, or you can put +6 scientists. I mostly tried to grow my cities to happy cap except to generate the great scientists for Astro, but I don't know if that's optimal.
 
Especially with FIN, for me growing on coast is better than stagnating with specialists. Cottages might be even better, depends how long the game will be.
 
Using a Great Merchant to bulb Metal Casting is perfectly fine, if you can generate 3 GP by Optics (and with PHI that's no problem). A 3rd GS bulbing Optics generates more beakers, but you have to research extra techs to unlock that bulb.

In this particular case...

Spoiler Turn 77 :

If you want Pyramids, you need to settle an island city for the stone, and if we're going to settle island cities anyway...

This is turn 76 Pyramids (screenshot taken a turn later after revolting to Rep) after a turn 63 GLH. Those timings could be a bit late on deity, but fairly safe on immortal.

View attachment 732640

Even without knowing about the copper, I think Bronze Working first is the way to go. Settle 1N on PH for a turn 13 worker, who mines a grass hill, then the copper, then starts chopping. Hunting->AH after BW. (You could argue for sailing before to connect the 2nd city... I preferred to improve the pig earlier, and we need to build a lot of fogbusting / city garrison warriors before Sailing anyway. Important to not road the copper to keep warriors available.) Masonry after Sailing, and only then Wheel->Pottery->Writing (paused research after ~turn 70 writing).

Capital builds workboat after worker, it's done turn 23, then starts a 2nd workboat until size 3 for the western fish (but put chops into settler). Revolt to slavery when settler is on its way, then built 6 warriors between the two cities (lost 1 while fogbusting). After Sailing, London builds lighthouse into Great Lighthouse, whereas York whips its lighthouse and eventually settlers for the island cities. Unfortunately due to that barb city spawn, my stone city had to take the capital's clams instead of the clams to its northeast. On the main island I managed to avoid barb cities except one at the very northwestern tip.

Obviously that investment may delay the Astro date due to the later libraries, we'll see if that was worth it. I would note the land on our island is not particularly great. There is one very good city spot (fish, wheat and river, then pig after border pop), but it is very far north. That is probably the only other one I would settle pre-Astro. In between, you have that jungle belt with no food outside sugar and an ivory city that would not be a great investment just to get that extra point of happiness.
Pretty shocking to see how much better your t77 is than my t78. I feel like I should start again. I was probably just too indecisive and ended up achieving very little. I should really do more early game practice rather than aiming to finish most games.

Also,
Spoiler :
you don't have copper hooked up and not a single warrior on the island even with the barb city! How come the archers aren't walking into your cities?
 
@jorissimo

Spoiler :

The main island is fogbust by warriors + a barb city. But I also had copper road partially built the whole time to connect in an emergency.

You need to build a lot of warriors, pick your battles (run if needed), and take battles on good defensive terrain ideally with a pair or warriors (so that the 2nd warrior can finish the archer if needed). There was a good thread on that: https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...tech-archery-to-deal-with-deity-barbs.687307/ .

For the small island, I think those archers are defending the city and just won't move. At some point I even brought a worker to remove the jungle next to the barb border and it didn't bait an archer out.
 
@pmarc
Spoiler :

For the small island, I think those archers are defending the city and just won't move. At some point I even brought a worker to remove the jungle next to the barb border and it didn't bait an archer out.
That's funny, because I've had games where a barb city spawned next to my city, a barb archer just walked into my city and I had to reload. That was on Immortal though. Will experiment with your opening.
 
T77, second try:
Spoiler :

I followed @pmarc 's approach this time, and although I'm still 11 turns away from the Mids being not quite the micro wizard that he is, the result is much better than on my first try. I also founded Hastings 1N of the original location to have the clam in first ring. For some reason, not a single barb appeared on the island even though I didn't fogbust it at all this time, aside from going around with the galley a couple of times. I have also fogbusted much more of the continent than previously, and the land is quite a bit less bad than I had imagined. The slider is at 100% just for illustrative purposes.

Civ4ScreenShot0175.JPG

Civ4ScreenShot0176.JPG

 
To those that played for some turns. T119 (100AD).
Spoiler :

Nobody else cared about the +1 happiness from ivory? Is it just me?
Spoiler :

Civ4ScreenShot0000.JPG




 
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