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Immortal Help

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by Bamboocha, Sep 26, 2016.

  1. Bamboocha

    Bamboocha Warlord

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    I'd like some advice for Immortal/Deity. I can consistently win with pretty much any victory condition on Emperor, but Immortal is just too "unfair" (which is to say, the AI gets too many advantages). Whenever I try to play, either one of the following scenarios happens.

    1 I try to go for a peaceful victory type, like Cultural or Scientific
    a Early in the game the enemy instantly rushes me, before I can even get a full army up and running. In my last Korea game (Korea is supposed to be powerful, right?) Sweden declared war on me (for settling too close to them, but I didn't have much space to expand as is, and they also never explicitly asked me to stop settling near them. We also had a declaration of friendship so I thought we were good) and rushed my fourth city with an entire blanket of swordsmen, pikemen and composite bowmen. Even with my crossbowmen (I was rushing printing press to get the Tower of Pisa and Globe Theater for my cultural victory) I was no match for them. I'd lost my city before I even knew what was happening, and I quit because there's no way I could've kept that massive force away from my capital.
    b Through some miracle I survive the early game, but the gap between myself and the AI is too big to overcome. In science they're multiple techs ahead of me (and also able to steal crucial wonders away), in tourism they always dwarf me, and they have enough money to buy the favor of enough city-states and steal them away from under my nose.

    2 I go for early agression myself and quickly build up a nice invasion force (usually with Assyria or Huns because of their awesome early game siege units). I can manage to capture one or two capitals, but quickly run out of steam because I run out of gold and happiness. I'm forced to sit back and catch my breath, but by that point every civ I know hates me. Then one (or if I'm really unlucky multiple) civ declares war on me, summons a gigantic blanket of troops out of seemingly nowhere and I'm done for.

    Turtling up doesn't work, and going on the offensive doesn't work either. What should I be doing then?
    If it helps my build order is usually
    -Scout
    -Scout (If Tradition, otherwise I start building a monument until Pottery is researched)
    -Shrine (if I don't have tradition, I finish the monument after this)
    -A worker (if I didn't manage to steal one from a CS)
    -A settler for my next city
    -Some more settlers and buildings that make good use of my resources (unless I'm playing agressive, at which point I usually pump out compsite bowmen/horse archers and battering rams/siege towers)

    (If there are any mods watching, I know I have another thread on the front page but it's been inactive for over 10 days. If I knew how to remove it I would've done so, as to not clutter up the front page too much)
     
  2. poxpower

    poxpower Prince

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    1a - never forward-settle the AI if you're not prepared to fight them. They will hate you A LOT.
    You should easily have seen this coming. When you see 15 units moving near your border, that means the AI will attack you. At that point it's time to attempt to bribe them to fight someone else, or to bribe someone to fight them.
    Failing that, time to prepare for war and bring all your units to defend.

    2- Domination is the hardest victory condition so try to win with other ones before

    Turtling works just fine on Deity. It's the best strategy really, the AI can't do anything about it. There's a certain build / tech order that basically can't fail.

    Sometimes like:
    1- scout,scout,scout,granary,settler,settler,caravan,caravan,library,national college
    2- then stuff like markets, caravans, university, workshop, water mill, public school, writer's guild, artist guild, factory, research labs etc.

    Tech: pottery, mining, philosophy, currency, civil service, education, acoustics, metal casting, machinery, scientific theory, electricity, oxford into radio, industrialization, plastics, fertilizer, rocketry, sattelites etc.

    If you just go for peaceful science there's very little you need to be paying attention to or doing to win. It's the easiest victory condition and is almost entirely independant of whatever the AI does.

    It all really comes down to how well you manage your empire and how you do all the little things to make your game more efficient.
     
  3. phryxolydian

    phryxolydian Warlord

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    Can't say I agree with all of your suggestions, poxpower (x3 scouts before a monument? WG after Public Schools?) but, you are definitely right in saying that SV is definitely the easiest VC by far and, as Korea, you have massive advantages and you will catch up very quickly so, even if you are playing peacefully, try to be aware of what your neighbors are doing, bribe 'em to go elsewhere and even if you are successful, a few CB upgraded to XBs can't hurt, right?

    I can tell you for certain that if you read a few guides on this forum and watch some videos like Acken's on YT, you will rapidly improve and you'll soon think Immortal isn't so tough, after all. I think you'd be better of sticking to a strategy to familiarize yourself fully with it instead of going different routes every other game, which is what I tokk from "if going Tradition". Something I don't agree with at all is interrupting your monument to build a shrine, that's not a very good idea if you ask me, finish your monuments asap! Also, especially when playing on lower difficulties than Deity, CS build their workers slower so, if you are going to steal workers, don't be afraid of stealing from your neighbors, it's very likely that you'll peace out in a few turns and having one (or more) workers sub-T20 will help your game significantly.
     
  4. poxpower

    poxpower Prince

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    Oh yah my second point wasn't an order, just a list of buildings you want. The writer's guild should obviously be build very early. Some games you also want a market or a stable or maybe even temples.

    Triple scout is really strong on standard pangea.

    Unless going liberty, the monument is not very important. If you plan to go tradition, don't even make it. An archer is infinitely better for instance.

    But yah I love triple scout. There's always one who is basically just a worker farm so it only leaves you with 2 scouts who are great for protecting your tiles from barbs, escorting settlers, pillaging caravans, stealing ruins, finding city-states early, finding natural wonders, finding city locations, finding more AIs to set trades up etc. etc.
     
  5. Bamboocha

    Bamboocha Warlord

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    I tried playing a game in Immortal once again, failed, downgraded to Emperor and won a cultural victory by what feels like the skin of my teeth.
    I think I was able to pinpoint the problem: science. Somehow, despite my best efforts, I feel like I always run behind on science. I was playing as France and rushing all the theming techs in order to get a huge advantage in theming bonuses. It worked, but I had to pay for it by a military that was lagging behind about two eras. Arabia (the number one civ in the game) was on the verge of winning a scientific victory. Luckily I managed to beat them to the punch with a cultural victory, but I seriously considered declaring war on them and taking the capital to stop them from winning the game. Luckily that wasn't needed.

    Korea partially offsets this problem, but I still feel like science is a problem. Any general tips on how to get more science? I'll add my last France game (the save from a few turns before my victory). Maybe the log on my early game turns can help you figure out where I went wrong. Thanks in advance to anyone who takes the time to look through my save file.
     

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  6. RuntyBassoon143

    RuntyBassoon143 Chieftain

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    Hey, any chance you have the starting save file?
     
  7. Bamboocha

    Bamboocha Warlord

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    Sure thing, here you go.
     

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  8. phillipwyllie

    phillipwyllie Wannabe Deity

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    Grow, you do that by attempting to get WLTKD in all your cities all of the time. Settling next to rivers helps. For coastal cities with lots of fish don't bother with fishing boats at first but do rush Optics and rush buy the lighthouse if you need to, that's prolly the best 400 gold you'll ever spend. Since this is Immortal ToA and HG is out of the question but you never know.

    As a long-time Emperor player myself who's just moved up to Immortal I feel your carpet of doom pain. I had a very nice 5(GBR Spain on my 5th city) city empire going with salt everywhere, the only problem my immediate neighbor was Oda.. I now always settle on hills and construction is teched a lot quick than I would normally.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2016
  9. phryxolydian

    phryxolydian Warlord

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    Those are both possible on Immortal and HG is quite doable even on Deity. Of course, it helps if you are Egypt. <Insert Egypt smiley>
     
  10. phillipwyllie

    phillipwyllie Wannabe Deity

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    It is and I recommend the Shoshone.
     

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