Immortal Minimalism, Chapter III - Augustus Caesar

I sorta thought this might go like this. Infantry vs Infantry heavily favors the highly promoted, and while Hammurabi has a tech lead, he's squandered it on culture techs instead of the truly powerful oil techs. His lack of army is going to bite him squarely in the arse.

I think you'll finish this up pretty quick, just make sure his culture isn't too high :).
 
I sorta thought this might go like this. Infantry vs Infantry heavily favors the highly promoted, and while Hammurabi has a tech lead, he's squandered it on culture techs instead of the truly powerful oil techs. His lack of army is going to bite him squarely in the arse.

I think you'll finish this up pretty quick, just make sure his culture isn't too high :).

Thanks. :)

Yeah, so far Hammurabi defense is kind of disappointing. :lol:
But this is immortal, and after 4 consecutive losses, I don't know about being too sure already... :scared:

By the way, thanks also for the nice comment in the deleted thread.

It was really appreciated! :)

It is a bit disappointing seeing many game mechanics doubts I expressed in this series not being answered, and I'm a little sad about getting a (likely deserved) minor spam warning in that other thread (as been correctly suggested, I will avoid bothering about the contents and avoid posting replies in those other threads in future); but it was nice to get at least someone else credit and respect for actually spending my time in demonstrating what I'm taking about, no matter it might be considered good or bad play, worth it or not, a winning strategy or, more likely, a silly and loser strategy.

I'm glad and thankful to the few that keep on following this series, dropping friendly comments, jokes, thoughts and advice, demonstrating honest will to compare, and true interest and curiosity about the game itself.

I personally believe that a civil and polite attitude matters, when relating to unknown people, no matter the subject of the conversation; this even appreciating different opinions, irony and sarcasm (also if on myself), when relaxed, fun, fair and respectful.

I'm sorry if I sound gloom, I am a little bit about this issue at the moment (but don't worry, it won't last too long :D).
(and there are definitely more important issues to care about and deal with in my life :lol:)

No need to reply on this one, I just wished to say thanks for that comment. :)

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Back on Topic! :)

I'll likely play the next session (and likely post about) sometimes today. :D

Comments on the previous sessions, still, as always, welcome. :)
 
Bummer you put in the power graph from Survy and not from Hammurabi :( The last one is more interesting. I love the fact though that you only are producing 6 espionage points per turn. This means that you have build 1 courthouse in total if I am not mistaken hehe. No time to waste right? I am just wondering what Hammy is doing? Is he focussing on Gilga instead of you? It really looks like this is going to be a short war. Good luck with your victory.
 
I love the fact though that you only are producing 6 espionage points per turn. This means that you have build 1 courthouse in total if I am not mistaken hehe. No time to waste right?
Ah ah. Yes, just one I guess.
But it was already there when captured the city, since I never gave the order!

And besides not wasting time... All the following is just "IMO" :)

I usually prefer building wealth rather than markets, grocers, banks and courthouses, if in low gold troubles.
But it was like never in this game. Even with a bunch of praetorian stationing in enemy territory,
Rome was conquering cities so fast that the income from pillaging and razing was eventually enough.
As well, selling resources for gold helps. And a smaller empire helps containing the maintenance costs low.
Same for troops: fewer units highly promoted, besides performing better, cost less than more not promoted units.

The only buildings I really care about are libraries and universities. Next granary and harbors/lighthouses.
Then later observatories are nice in the cities where the science output is decent.
This game I built a couple of forum/grocer to raise a bit happiness and health somehow.
(And missing probably the fascism race for that).

Specifically on this game: considering Rome (capital city) and Angkor Thom (Versailles city) positions,
(see last screen shot) I believe this is the stereotype of a game where courthouses effects are insignificant. ;)

Again, just my silly opinion. I might very well be wrong on all this. :)

Then of course, with a bigger empire, and bigger cities, Wall Street and Forbidden Palace have an higher value
(but since hitting a population of like 20 in my cities, makes my PC sloppy and crashing to desktop,
I keep only few of them, and keep them small. - Yeah, silly me! Just kidding/joking :P - ).


I am just wondering what Hammy is doing? Is he focussing on Gilga instead of you?
Yeah, I wonder as well. Good question!
I sow few Babylon destroyers moving around near Rome and vassal's cities (poor guy, he's being kicked out from the continent, and cares about defending the oceans...), but yes, I was waiting more military resistance from Hammurabi as well.

It really looks like this is going to be a short war. Good luck with your victory.
Thanks! Yeah, now it really seems like this one is going to be my first conquest victory on Immortal. :)
Small map makes it easy, of course, but still, I'm glad, also because the map wasn't that good IMO
(dry land around capital, start from an edge, protective and creative AI leaders, ...).


(note: smilies disabled since reaching the 30 images limit with the screen shots)


---


Session 30, turn 331, 1911AD
(first attempt, no cheats, no reloads)


The great general built a military academy in Aksum.

0000hg.jpg


That's Aksum output when building military units. Not Rome, but pretty good too.

0001pzu.jpg


Little gift to Gilgamesh: combustion.

0002ai.jpg


A commando infantry attacking Babylon directly from Ycity: those guys are kind of cool!

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A knight finishing up the job.

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Babylon: first half of the wonders, and settled great people.

0005md.jpg


Babylon: second half of the wonders. More building are up there.

0006wv.jpg


Babylon razed. Yep Hammurabi, facing Rome is not wise to defend your capital with just 4 units.

0007jp.jpg


Golden age finished. Nippur razed as well.

0008mj.jpg


And another couple of wonders destroyed too.

0009gs.jpg


Ah ah... poor Ycity! It keeps on having its building destroyed! A factory this time.

0010jk.jpg


Next city on the list, Kutha, is razed as well.

0011vty.jpg


Commando units, and what they are good for.

0012jgz.jpg


An high promoted cuirassier finishing up the job.

0013rj.jpg


Akkad was razed, and both another wonder and another shrine were destroyed.
Ah... Scotland Yard, destroyed. And the military instructor, gone.

0014ep.jpg


This one was a little harder: Rome lost 2 cannons and 7 infantry units in the attack.

0015zz.jpg


An infantry stack healing on Borsippa gates, waiting for a cannons stack to arrive.

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Rome discovered scientific method, picked next biology: but it will never discover it I believe.

0017pk.jpg


Eridu conquered again, Rome gave it back (liberate) to Gilgamesh once again: be more careful this time, please!

0018fe.jpg


Yeah, right, a gracious act of generosity. Here the new cultural borders.

0019qm.jpg


Babylon is now in the corner, but Hammurabi doesn't give up.

0020p.jpg


Borsippa razed, and another shrine destroyed.

0021zp.jpg


Six cannons were lost in that last attack.

0022hu.jpg


Sirpurla razed as well. Just one cannon lost this time.

0023iy.jpg


A level 7 war elephant capturing, in 1911AD, another city.

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Just one cannon lost this time too.

0025qp.jpg


Victory screen: culturally Babylon is not so scary anymore. As well as militarily.

0026erq.jpg


Demographics. Rome is first in all the important categories except one.
Take a guess in which one is not: yep, soldiers!

0027ru.jpg


Top cities: all Roman, except Eridu, gifted to Gilgamesh.

0028ld.jpg


Tactical overview: in few turns the four Babylon northern cities should be gone.
If Hammurabi doesn't capitulate after being wiped out from the main continent,
few naval transport will be necessary to drop the troops on the islands. No big deal.
The only issue left has now become getting a 50 exp level 8 commando war elephant.

0029sn.jpg



---


End session.


Save attached.


Comments? :)
 
Well that was anti-climactic. Nearly all game working on the other AIs while looking ahead to the big, titanic final struggle of you vs. Hammurabi... then you just take pretty much the army you already had, upgrade to infantry, and destroy him in ~15 turns.
 
Wow, with all the wanton destruction of the world's cultural treasures, Rome is looking a lot like the early game barbs who declare war on all civilization! :lol:
 
Oh, and those commando promoted troops are just awesome! Wow. In my next warmongering game, I'm going to try and concentrate more on getting highly-promoted units, now that I've seen what a difference it makes.
 
Also, I'm really impressed with how diligently you managed to keep tech parity, even with only a max of 6 cities at any one time. It makes me wonder how many cities one really needs to have for tech parity, relative to other civs...
 
Well that was anti-climactic. Nearly all game working on the other AIs while looking ahead to the big, titanic final struggle of you vs. Hammurabi... then you just take pretty much the army you already had, upgrade to infantry, and destroy him in ~15 turns.
Ah ah... yeah, kind of. No need for all that fear! :lol:
But I believe I built like 25-40 extra units (infantry/cannons) while fighting this last war. ;)

Thanks for all the comments and advice! :)

Wow, with all the wanton destruction of the world's cultural treasures, Rome is looking a lot like the early game barbs who declare war on all civilization! :lol:
Ah ah... true. :lol:

Oh, and those commando promoted troops are just awesome! Wow. In my next warmongering game, I'm going to try and concentrate more on getting highly-promoted units, now that I've seen what a difference it makes.
Also, I'm really impressed with how diligently you managed to keep tech parity, even with only a max of 6 cities at any one time. It makes me wonder how many cities one really needs to have for tech parity, relative to other civs...

Yep, commando is a quite strong promotion, if you ask me! :)

As I said this series doesn't have an educational purpose, however I think I'm going to break the rule here and dare give a direct advice: IMO an efficient Heroic Epic and an efficient Oxford University cities might kind of be definitely something to target for, in almost every game: most of your units might come from the first, most of your science might come from the latter. Here the capital was not the best IMO for science, so I had my barracks city (with Heroic Epic) in the capital, an uncommon choice speaking for myself.

Another really important thing in this game was civic switching at the correct time IMO: it helped a lot. I switched between representation and police state; between slavery and caste system; between mercantilism and free market (ok, this was a mistake); and between free religion and theocracy. If you read the thread you'll find out when and why. And the Pyramids helped as well IMO, of course.

IMO learn the benefits of each civic might be very important, and also open once in a while the civic screen, might inspire some quick switch (this especially when playing with a spiritual leader! ;)).

Just my silly opinion here. If someone else wish to correct and / or add few more consideration on this subject, please feel free to do it, I'm interested as well! :)

Cheers all! :)

---

I'll finish up with the game sometimes soon! :)
 
Session 31
(first attempt, no cheats, no reloads)


Neribtum, last southern Babylonian city on the continent was razed.

000jzv.jpg


Next, Angkor Wat in the north was reconquered.

001crf.jpg


And gifted (liberated) to Suryavarman.

002qvd.jpg


Next Babylonian northern city, conquered.

003xdn.jpg


And gifted (liberated) to Suryavarman as well.

004qec.jpg


Hammurabi never gives up.

005bqx.jpg


First half of the Roman troops lost to conquer that city.

006cmo.jpg


And here the second half of the Roman troops lost to conquer that city.

007yv.jpg



---


Session 32 (final)
(first attempt, no cheats, no reloads)


Here the 47 exp War Elephant died: that city resisted.

0000vt.jpg


Here the troops left for Rome at that point: 4 military, 1 worker.

0001bbr.jpg


Gift the previous cities was smart after all: Suryavarman finished up the last defender.

0002iv.jpg


And here Erech, the last Babylonian city on the main continent, was razed.

0003qm.jpg


But Hammurabi still doesn't give up.

0004mx.jpg


Galleons (navigation II), then. But those destroyers are closing them in Rome.

0005ne.jpg


However, seven turns later Rome could land few units on the island. Eshnunna was razed.

0006w.jpg


And next, Opis, was razed as well. Hammurabi is left with only its capital now.

0007pv.jpg


But Hammurabi doesn't give up. The brave guy.

0008ft.jpg


Let's tell my vassals to attack there (quite logic I would say, but with the AIs you never know), the enemy capital.

0009ak.jpg


Yep, that's Sippar! The enemy capital, and the last target.

0010rm.jpg


Scientific method gifted to Gilgamesh, hoping in some destroyers for help.

0011px.jpg


Here the Roman 5 full galleons, in their world round trip.

0012nw.jpg


While the other units walk, coast to coast, on the opposite coast, waiting near enemy capital.

0013tr.jpg


A bunch of empty galleons distracted Hammurabi destroyers, so the important five could get there.
After the cannons attacked, the infantry finished up the job.

0014d.jpg


As above. Selected it twice for some reason.

0015cpc.jpg


Sippar razed. Babylonian civilization destroyed.

0016tb.jpg


And conquest victory.

0017r.jpg


Power graph.

0018qk.jpg


Augustus Caesar displayed the leadership abilities of Augustus Caesar. Yep, this makes sense.

0019rs.jpg


One more turn.

0020fv.jpg



---


Yep, done.
- Conquest victory.
- Never more than 6 cities.
- Always in war with at least one AI.


The end game was quite tedious.


Saves attached.
1914: end session 31
1940x: before razing Sippar
1940: after razing Sippar
1941: one more turn


Comments? :)
 
Congratulations. Nice to see a well-deserved victory in one of your Minimalism games. I admit it was pretty clear for the last 2 days or so that you were going to win eventually, and the only real question remaining was how long it would take.
 
Congratulations. Nice to see a well-deserved victory in one of your Minimalism games. I admit it was pretty clear for the last 2 days or so that you were going to win eventually, and the only real question remaining was how long it would take.
Thanks! :)
Yeah, I razed like 5 cities in 3 turns to clean up the continent from Babylonian cities, destroying all my army, wishing for Hammurabi to capitulate. But no ways, I had to sail to its islands to finish him off. :lol:

Next task, chapter IV, few ideas:
- same game, Kublai Khan (keshik), 6 cities always war, but standard map (instead of small)
- 6 cities standard map always peace UN diplomatic victory with some leader (I have NO idea yet on how to achieve that :lol:, it's going to be very diplomatic I believe)
- 6 cities standard map always peace space race (as for chapter I), with Gandhi (yep, a spi/phi leader, to make it a bit easier, since I missed it twice already on immortal)
- any other idea?
 
I would vote diplomatic (UN preferably, not AP) since I can't ever seem to make that work for myself.

Thanks for another great series by the way!
 
Thanks! :)
Yeah, I razed like 5 cities in 3 turns to clean up the continent from Babylonian cities, destroying all my army, wishing for Hammurabi to capitulate. But no ways, I had to sail to its islands to finish him off. :lol:

Next task, chapter IV, few ideas:
- same game, Kublai Khan (keshik), 6 cities always war, but standard map (instead of small)
- 6 cities standard map always peace UN diplomatic victory with some leader (I have NO idea yet on how to achieve that :lol:, it's going to be very diplomatic I believe)
- 6 cities standard map always peace space race (as for chapter I), with Gandhi (yep, a spi/phi leader, to make it a bit easier, since I missed it twice already on immortal)
- any other idea?

I'd also like to see a diplo. victory - those make for some fun games to review but not ones I tend to do well at myself. Have you considered adding extra AIs to make things a little more interesting?
 
always peace and only six cities! those rules sound tough. You wil likely be low on pop so you need to build Un. Couple that with having to refuse war requests/cant get mutaul war bonus sounds hard to make a block of buddies against the big dog.

I would want a spiritual leader for sure for this style. Maybe Ramses?
 
Whoo, congratulations! Rome has razed its way to world conquest!

Thanks Yatta, I had a lot of fun following this game. I would love to see you try something with a predominantly espionage economy, adding your "minimalist" twist to it. That would be very interesting.

What about a scenario where you must conquer the world using only mounted or highly mobile units, no siege or any other units that have only 1 movement point? Maybe that combined with a great plains map, or some other map that lends itself to fast-moving land units. You could call it "Horsemen of the Apocalypse" or something. :lol:

The "always peace" diplomatic victory scenario sounds really challenging, too.
 
I would vote diplomatic (UN preferably, not AP) since I can't ever seem to make that work for myself.
Alright. Conceded.
Thanks for another great series by the way!
Thanks! :)

I'd also like to see a diplo. victory - those make for some fun games to review but not ones I tend to do well at myself. Have you considered adding extra AIs to make things a little more interesting?
Alright. Conceded.
What about standard size, archipelago, tiny islands, 9 civilizations?

always peace and only six cities! those rules sound tough.
Yeah, with friend like you guys, I don't really need enemies! :lol:
(just joking, of course :D). However, this was the most difficult pick I believe.
You wil likely be low on pop so you need to build Un.
Alright. Mass media beeline then.
Couple that with having to refuse war requests/cant get mutaul war bonus sounds hard to make a block of buddies against the big dog.
Uhm... let's think about it. maybe a rule that allow join wars if asked to, but cannot fight outside the cultural borders? Nah... maybe too complicated to put in practice. :confused:
I would want a spiritual leader for sure for this style. Maybe Ramses?
Alright. Conceded the spiritual trait. But Egypt was played in chapter I, and industrious was played in chapter III, so for a bit of variety no Ramses II as a leader, it would be too redundant IMO.
Gandhi or Mansa would be good I believe, but too much stereotype-like for peace and diplomacy.
What about Montezuma? :D

Hammy didn't capitulate because he had too much war success against you.
I guessed so. Thanks for confirming it! :)

Whoo, congratulations! Rome has razed its way to world conquest!
Thanks Yatta, I had a lot of fun following this game.
Thank you for all the comments! :)
I would love to see you try something with a predominantly espionage economy, adding your "minimalist" twist to it. That would be very interesting.
Uhm... not predominantly in this one, since I wish to play a predominantly espionage game in this series sometimes without too many other restrictions. But pick something specific about espionage to do, and I'll see if it can fit somehow.
What about a scenario where you must conquer the world using only mounted or highly mobile units, no siege or any other units that have only 1 movement point?
That was the plan for the Kublai Khan option. :)
But seems like the diplomatic option is way more popular at the moment.
Maybe that combined with a great plains map, or some other map that lends itself to fast-moving land units. You could call it "Horsemen of the Apocalypse" or something. :lol:
Ah ah. I would just call it keshik standard conquest always in war with at least one AI. So from now on, if you wish to, you have the authority (and task) to give a title to each chapter! Deal? :lol:
The "always peace" diplomatic victory scenario sounds really challenging, too.
And really popular as well. So what's the title for this one? :)


So, settings and conditions so far:

- standard map, archipelago, tiny islands (hopefully connected)*
*(I wish to meet everybody as soon as possible, but don't wish play twice a pangea)

- 9 civilizations: Montezuma (Agg-Spi) plus 8 random AIs.

- Beeline to alphabet for espionage (still have to be decided what to do about it).

- Beeline to mass media for UN.

- The goal is a diplomatic victory, but since it looks quite difficult, if it will not be possible a cultural victory will rank as "good enough".

- Maximum 6 cities at each end-turn "enter"

- Cannot declare, at least without reasons never; it still has to be decided if under specific circumstances (AP resolutions, requests to join a war) declare is allowed (and maybe fighting defensive-only, inside cultural borders, wars?).

Any other comment, input or idea?

Thanks in advance! :)
 
Great game Yatta. I love the commando showcase. Never knew they could walk that far. Commando gains a lot in my book. Looking forward to the next minimalism game. Especially the one worker is hilarious.
 
Great game Yatta.
Thanks! :)
Ehm...
Spoiler :
Y A T T A ! !
yatta.png
:D
Spoiler :
victory! ;)
I love the commando showcase. Never knew they could walk that far. Commando gains a lot in my book.
Ah ah... yeah, I forced a little bit on that direction, it was fun. :lol:
By the way, if the level 7 exp 47 war elephant wouldn't die, I guess it would reach exp 50 and level 8 with that attack. I would promote it then amphibious and try to capture the last Babylon city with it performing the last attack of the game from a galleon.
Just for a fun tribute! :D
Looking forward to the next minimalism game.
Which is going to be up in a minute! Just the time to upload it! :)
I'll add a link here right after.
Especially the one worker is hilarious.
It was fun(not really) once, but I guess I won't put that restriction again, also if I might end up playing on an archipelago with just one worker: impose it is just kind of bothering and is not really bringing anything worth to experience in the game, strategically speaking.
However, yes, I can agree that it was kind of hilarious somehow to see that poor guy moving back and forward across Mongolian lands... :lol:

Posting the next chapter... now! :)

EDIT: here the link to the chapter IV of the series:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=430169
 
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