Immortal University 50 - Wang Kon

TheMeInTeam

If A implies B...
Joined
Jan 26, 2008
Messages
27,995
Hello all and welcome to the Immortal University! This series was started a long time ago to move a group of the forum's players to the next level. It seems for the moment I am the partial full-time host . Are you ready for the U?

This is the 50th beatdown on the AI (L if you are running ProPrats :p), in case you're keeping track.

We will uphold the university's traditions...smacking down the hapless AI!

Our leader this time around:

Civ4ScreenShot0000.jpg


Wang Kon. FIN/PRO. Yes, anybody can be pro! Well, with financial we're mildly encouraged to spam the hell out of cottages without thinking with a GP farm somewhere or other. The UU encourages a catapult war, but game mechanics greatly discourage that unless you can get there fasta fasta. UB is solid and I have guess most of us will be building at least 6 of them anyway.

Here's the start:

Civ4ScreenShot0001.jpg


Random/Fractal. I usually like beaver (mmm...beaver), but not in a capitol fat cross because it carries implications that aren't necessarily ideal. Well, it's an easily accessible :) though, so it's not all bad.

Huts and Events are off. If you don't like it, just plop 4 warriors somewhere in world builder and give yourself 60 gold to simulate huts, and just delete your capitol and put 3 archers there to simulate events.

Copy and Paste of the doctrine:

To play, just extract the WB save file into your worldbuilder saves directory, then play it. Use custom scenario if you want some extra settings to tickle your fancy. This series was designed for people learning immortal, so most people here will be at that level or trying to attain it, although deity players are welcome also. Hell, if you want to play this on NOBLE, go ahead, but I'm not peeling off the AI bonuses. The intention of this and any other game thread I post is to get better. Play whatever level you need in order to improve. Just remember, there are immortal bonuses and that's not going to change unless you WB edit it.

If you are aspiring IMM+, try to remember to add archery back to the barbs in WB. Every time you don't, a deity AI will kill a kitten, although there are a lot of kittens so it's not the end of the world if you prefer easymode barbs .

I do request people to list their difficulty and speed. In terms of updates, well nobody follows that anyway. Post in the manner you feel comfortable. Typical comparison dates are 1 AD, liberalism, and victory/defeat, as well as any major events. If in doubt, go with that.

The save!

View attachment IU 50 Wang Kon.zip

View attachment AutoSave_Initial_BC-4000.CivBeyondSwordSave

The initial autosave for those who want to duck having to add barbs or possibly use proper colors. It's IMM/Norm no huts/events.
 
Spoiler :
Just finished it!!!(I lost, duh) Immediate neighbors are Monty and Shaka, got DoW'd by Monty ca. 1000BC.:cry: Prior to that Shaka went into war-mode while being annoyed with me because of border tensions; then I saw in WorldBuilder that he had reduced Hatty, his other neighbor, to one city.
 
I'll give this a try today. I'm about 8 turns away from winning a gmae, so I have to finish that one first.

If you dont like those beavers, so can always move 1S and go from 6 water to 4 as well.
 
^ It would be silly to forgo FIN fun in a capitol BFC without gaining anything obvious in return. You don't even need a road for the :) after 40%.
 
Spoiler :
950BC. Horribly hemmed in by mouth-frothers, our only option is war ASAP. Unfortunately Shaka, my first choice of target, has gold and copper in his BFC and he rexes explosivley all over the map while leaving me far behind in tech. That leaves Monty, who I hit in 1000BC with 16 chariots, just in time for his resourceless UU to spoil everything. :sad:

I did capture his capital though. Maybe I should spam axes and try to tough it out, but my chariot rush is effectively thwarted.
 
And the end...
Spoiler :
Despite the arrival of Jaguars to mess up what should have been a fairly surgical operation, I struggle on and continue to reduce Monty. Then, of course, the inevitable happens:

Spoiler :
civ4screenshot0840.jpg

And that was when I threw in the towel. :D
 
TMIT can now be officially deemed

Spoiler :
EVIL!!!! :lol::lol::lol::lol:


About 300AD

Spoiler :
Surprisingly, I've managed the Shaka/Monte sandwich someone decently for me. A mutual war between our triumvirate and Hatsheput (Monte brought me in) and shared religion (Bud) has kept me at pleased with the two (not that that means much). I'm at about 8 to 9 positive with each. I've given in to every demand of course. It's been peaceful across the board for a while, but Monte is gearing up to attack me or Egypt soon. Luckily, I have a military tech lead on him with Feud, Machinery and CS in about 2 turns. I'm actually considering attacking him, but it's sticky with Shaka/Monty at Friendly.

I'm hoping to pop another GS and bulb Philo with it to found Tao and then convert Shaka to Tao to create some tension. It's doubtful. I have 8 cities but many are rather lame, of course.

I'll keep grinding this one out for a while mainly to see how I handle the M/S sandwich. I'm not doing badly in tech thus far. Egypt is getting kinda strong though. Monte needs to take her down a notch.


general thoughts:

Spoiler :
This setup presents an interesting strategy with these two nutcases. Too late for me now from an earlier perspective, but in hindsight I think teching to Alpha fast and then bulbing a strong tech you can bribe Shaka or Monte into war with each other. This would present some interesting possibilities. A modicum of luck would be needed such as the religion spread and Shaka converting to whatever Monte inevitably founds, which happened in my case, but Shaka isn't a zealot himself. Of course, I'm going to try to figure out some later ploy along these lines.
 
@ Lymond:
Spoiler :
A modicum of luck
Here's the problem :p, with these two the law of averages suggests that sooner rather than later one if not both will come after you. I gambled that Shaka would rather take on his worst enemy than me, and of course I lost. In retrospect I probably should have gifted him a city as I had no decent site for my third city anyway in the face of his stonehenge-powered culture assault (I tried placing one on the four food site to the SW, but it ended up with no tiles - probably should have gifted it to him then).

On this map, Shaka is destined to be a monster. Probably the best strategy is an ultra-fast rush to take him out, but I don't know if it's possible as he has both gold and copper in his capital.
 
In follow-up to my report above I'm posting some screenshots - it's actually 430AD:

Spoiler :


I'd appreciate some advice from TMIT and other on how best to proceed here

I really wanted that Bulaway spot but Shocka beat me to it

Land:

ui50ov0000.jpg



Tech:

ui50tech0000.jpg



Diplo:

ui50diplo0000.jpg






 
To 525BC (Imm/Epic):

Spoiler :

This is a tough map although the nice amount of commerce makes it easier. I was lucky enough not to get declared early (Shaka could have done that 1500bc but chose Hatshetsup and is becoming a monster). I just got Construction and have some 8 axemen and 5 cities. It will be probably quite easy to kill Monty, but it's difficult to prevent Shaka from backstabbing. :blush:

Civ4ScreenShot0838.JPG
View attachment NumberOneSuperGuy BC-0525.CivBeyondSwordSave

 
Hi, I've been a lurker from time to time and played a few LHC's and monarch > immortal uni. Took a shoot at this one this evening and it went (after one try, took the wrong rush 1st time) incredibly well. Had a really lucky dice roll though.

Anyway 365 BC Imm/Epic
Spoiler :

Settled 1S, Warrior went to scout, found Shaka almost immediately just a few tiles to the south, scouts his capitol with the warrior. The came Monty from the east. Boxed in between those two lovely guys I figured I go for a classic Axe-rush.

Tech path was: Agr -> AH -> BW
Civ4ScreenShot0003.JPG
No copper, although Shaka has which means axes and the impi, change of plans. I Settled the horses and tech path to Wheel -> Pottery

Built masses of chariots and then in 1725 BC Shaka declares war... (I got too exalted to take a real screenshoot from the actual event)
Civ4ScreenShot0011.JPG
A few turns later the Korean chariots knock on Shakas door
Civ4ScreenShot0005.JPG
...and the Zulu Empire crumbles to dust while Shaka still marches on against Hatty in Egypt. :eek:

While the war rages on I tech IW to utilize the green rivers of Shakas former land got Iron in the third ring of my capital and settles Wonsan to block of Monty a bit, and it is a good spot as well Wine/Gold/River. After capturing 4 cities and razes one I seek peace w Shaka for alphabet, which none of Monty or Hatty has. I Trade writing with Monty for fish and archery (Pro Archers). With my last gold from the war and with the ability to produce research all my cities effort goes into complete currency before the gold runs out. Completed 365 BC.

And this is the situation of my empire:
Korean cities
Civ4ScreenShot0001.JPG
Former Zulu Cities
Civ4ScreenShot0002.JPG
(CC = cottage city, I kept the east zulu city as a block against the zulu)

Relations
Civ4ScreenShot0007.JPG
Shaka and Hatty can't get enough of each others apparently... At the same time I have same religion as Monty

Tech
Civ4ScreenShot0004.JPG
Civ4ScreenShot0008.JPG
Demo - Note that those GNP-numbers are w. every city building research
Civ4ScreenShot0000.JPG

Now i think I got three clear options;
1) tech peacefully and consolidate my gains, put down a lot of cottages and try to keep Monty from my throat. Initial goals would be, CoL, GPFarm and later lib race...

The economy isn't crashed and w both Alpha and Currency in the bag i think that a war in the short future is possible. The only real option as a war target is Monty, because the others aren't that big of threats that might stab me in the back, so;

:backstab: 2) Whip out swords like a mad man, get Monty in to attack Zulu and/or Hatty and then back stab him. Got relative strength towards Monty 0,7 a bunch of swords will most likely tip that balance, however city-defense might start to become a problem. Decisive goals would be Montys capital and Holy city.

:backstab: 3) Combination, consolidate for 25-30 turns. Tech math -> construction for Jumbos and Hwachas. Whip/chop like mad and walk on Monty. Hopefully will neither Zulu nor Egypt intervene because of their war. The gambit here is that Monty is in WHEOOHRN and I don't know his target, we are at pleased but with guys like Monty I dont think that means much. The other thing to consider is that a real army w a handful of swords ~6 jumbos and ~6 hwachas can take some time to produce and my standing army would costs a lot...

I am leaning towards alternative 3 because I haven't had a real war w hwachas yet. And the really nice feeling, in the gut region, to out-war the classic back stabbing warmonger who always spoils the fun in other games is priceless...


This is my first posted game here on those forums so i would really appreciate any feedback on this game and on my gameplay so far. However, please don't point out that I've only got 1x workers and that my super-healer isn't optimal, i miss clicked with my mouse and didn't want to reload :)

View attachment NumberOneSuperGuy BC-0365.CivBeyondSwordSave

PS I play with the latest BUFFY mod
 
4000 BC --> 1700 AD

I was bored, so decided to play this one as a joke-map.

I built a few cottages, that's the first joke. Then I made a few super heros despite I know better, so that was the second joke.
Spoiler :

Stupid Shaka goes wehorn as soon as I meet him, I know how broken diplo is here so I dow on him first just for the hell of it, and GG farm him like crazy.

I end up getting into a war with the whole continent, all at once and without me getting much land, but it's ok because I end up GG farming off everyone like a manic and then even keeping the tech lead, while sniping off a decent city.

I ended up getting my first super-hero up to the point where he was killing a stack of 20 cannons and a hoared of other units in one wave without a scratch. I think that's about time to quit at this point since I can single handedly conquer my whole continent with just one single unit.

So.. it was a bit of a fun exercise.

f_jf075jim_ab40d9e.jpg

f_jf075jjm_f2605a6.jpg

f_iv3qt9m_f5a8fa6.jpg

f_jyenkbu0m_ca7859b.jpg

 
4000BC->~560AD
Spoiler :

I smashed Montezuma with a chariot rush (he never had anything but archers) I left him with one city so I could extort some techs from him. Shaka went to war with Hatty and I joined in with him in a vain hope to prevent him going after me.

Teched construction, whipped/chopped a big pile of Hwacha to finish Monty off. Barely stayed above 0gpt, went -12gpt when I actually entered Monty's territory. The turn after I declare on Monty, Shaka declares on me :( So far I've finished Monty off, and taken down Shaka's stack and one of his cities. Lost a barb city I'd just captured on the turn Shaka declared, and lost a city I'd settled next to the gold (which was doing nothing but working the gold). Big war weariness problems and a lot of troops mean the economy is rubbish, despite some decent land and a load of cottages.

Basically I'm kind-of winning the war, but while I'm getting 1 beaker per turn towards Currency, Shaka is teching Feudalism, and once he gets that it's going to be very hard to make any progress. The other continent is probably teching their way into a huge lead while on this continent we all just sit here and fight. Not a write-off, but certainly not going well.
 
drlake
Spoiler :

My game went Monte - Shaka ooh! Ag-hunting-archery then I DoW Shaka 2500 BC :) DoW on Monte not long after. We'll see.
 
@ Lymond

Spoiler :
What in the world is going on with Ulsan? That city is useless. Let Monte grab the spot if he's that foolish. You already had more than 6 cities, which is more than enough for any victory here. And what's with the obelisk build? It's far too late to make any use from them, forget it.

Some other issues worry me, like why are you building silly crowsbows when you already have feudalism. That's quite a waste of hammers-per-power ratio there. Not sure what your intensions are though.

Anyway, I'll stop critiquing there before someone takes something I said the wrong way AGAIN. Good luck, and hope it works out for you anyway.

@ Irgy
I always wanted to know, where exactly did you get that avatar from?
 
@ Bamse :

Spoiler :
You probably need some exploration before deciding to war against Montezuma. If his land is not worth it, then... See ?
He is first in score only because he is first in land.
MY rule of thumb (maybe not the best ; peacemonger talking here) is to avoid attacking an AI who has room to expand, provided I also have room to expand. Settling cities slows the AI's research rate and it doesn't go crazy about units until there's no more free room. Meanwhile the AI lays the land for you (cities grow, improvements are built, maintenance is paid, etc.).
--> Best time to strike is at the end of an AI's expansion phase.

It seems like you have some room to expand to the west, so I wouldn't focus on settling too much deep to the south of your Zulu cities.

In any case, be it for peaceful or agressive intents, exploration should be a top priority.

Minor point :
I didn't look at your save but I assume you don't have libraries in every city. Building wealth in your cities without a library would be more beneficial (especially if you already have an academy somewhere).

Hope that doesn't contradict your thoughts :)
 
Seems like Wang Kon came up not too long ago. A boss at work probably would choose a name like Wang Ron, but then all his civ names contain Ron. (King Kon anyone?)

Spoiler :
The Shakezuma sandwich reminds a person of an Ignorant Teacher challenge where TMIT warrior rushed Nappy on immortal.
 
Top Bottom