Immortal University 78 - Mao Zedong

[Htadus]

This is not an ideal map for a player moving up in difficulty . It will be a rather rude introduction to the higher level. You'd need a truly elite deity player to beat this on that level 1st try.

OK you got me on this. Are you serious or are you joking. I guess you are joking since I am farthest from a Deity player but I know I can win this game.

As for my game, I did not play too far.

Spoiler :

Stated settling in place and starting a worker. The tech path was Hunting, The wheel and AH before heading to BW.

Original Warrior went south and discovered the gold site and headed west along the land strip. He accidently fell upon Zulu worker who just built a pasture. Since this is Immortal, I chose to steal the worker and pillage the pasture before exploring the zulu land. The captued worker ran toward china for 3 turns and then started a road to planned second city claiming gold, corn and Wine.

After a few turns Shaka had enough of Chinese harrasment and agreed for peace. After learning BW and finding copper to west, city 3 was founded with clams, sheep and copper. The tech path then went to PH in the hope of building the Oracle for MC. The copper city was able to build the Oracle while the Gold city ran 2 scientists for the Machinary bulb. I stopped the game in 550 BC with 10 turns for Aesthetic to come in and a GS waiting to bulb Machinary.

There is a pile up going on right now and it is Monti, Shaka and Ragnar against Joao.

I have nearly all the forest near the capital for some mass Chokunu chopping and will go after Zulu, Monti and then JC. I intend to let shaka and Monti have full access to go after Joao. That way their cities should be les guarded.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I am farthest from a Deity player but I know I can win this game.

Well, there's quite a few things you can do on immortal that you can't do on deity. On deity, animals disappear and barb archers appear sooner so scouting is dicey (cutting off one of your moves in spoiler), and getting the tech edge to make bribes becomes much more difficult, as does any type of aggressive play if one chooses that route. That's why I felt this would be so hard on deity; the land quality is crap but there's not really a viable means to rush out of it.

Also

Spoiler :

In my game both shaka and monty went for me, not Joao, and Joao went for space and had very advanced units while JC absolutely WRECKED and capitulated two people, meaning that after I beat shaka/monty I had to take on JC master of lincoln/ragnar and he had a tech lead on me.

In a lot of other games, people are just spam war bribing AI on each other. I emphasize that such is a good tactic but not always workable, even on the same maps.

 

[Htadus]

Ah.. I misread you comment. I thought you were refering to Immortal when you actually were reffering to Deity. As for Deity being very difficult on this map, I will take your word for it.

 

[pigswill]

580ad. Immortal normal.

Spoiler :

Played through from 1000bc without reloading even once. Went straight to astronomy, no clever gambits. Things were going ok until I discovered that the only source of iron locally was 3 tiles west of gold/sheep/rice town and Shaka had built a junk city 1 tile west of it! Culture pressure got the iron for a couple of turns and I got a couple of chokes built then Zulu borders popped again, I lost the iron and Shaka declared on me.
Built lots of axes and survived the invasion, even counterattacked briefly and razed ironjunk city. Major I forgot impis had two moves and lost four workers! Building axes instead of research slowed down astronomy significantly, only just got it in 580. I only popped 2 GS, 1 for academy and 1 to partbulb astro. AIs seem pretty slow, lots of wars breaking out, I should consider myself lucky that I've survived this far.
Time to explore/expand/crash the economy.

 

[Htadus]

Holly crap. Chokuno with anti archery promotions are just down right mean.

I continued my immortal game toward 300 AD.

Spoiler :

After learning Aesthetics and Masonry, Machinary was bulbed and the army of Chokunu's were built/choped. Hoever just before the first chokunu was finished we got an invite to the dog pile. Accepted just to get Shaka to OB to get his units to Portugal.

Just harrassed the Portugese units until first 2-3 choku's showed up. Then proceeded to capture cities. 3 so far. Tech path was to Music via Drama. Should have gone Lit but did not have Poly yet at the time and waited for a trade.

 

[i_imperator]

Decided to play this untill turn 107

Spoiler :

So i decided to SIP, for the extra production from the plains hill, and we have silver in our BFC! Both a good and bad thing

I meet civ's bad boy shaka first on turn 4 and Monty on turn 8, man is this gonna be fun, the rest of the civ's all come around withen the next few turns

My tech went AH-Hunting-Archery-Mysticism-The Wheel-BW Pottery-Writing-Asethetics

Managed to settle two pretty good city sites, one with gold/floodplains which is gonna be great for cottages later and the other to block off shaka.

And i notice that skaka has built the great wall

Good news on the barb situation, my warrior managed to luckily defeat two archers, so i took Combat and The Archer bonus to help him out later on.

Religions seem to be dictiating the diplo here, monty and shaka are hindu, Jc is jewish along with Ragnar and Memhed, Jaou and Lincklon are Buddist. And as expected everyone hates America, naturally.

I check the diplo screen and oh crap shaka is plotting war at turn 100, i hope its not me so i decided to check the diplo situation and it turns out that he is annoyed at linclon.

Managed to get five city sites, Julius took the Furs site and Jaou beat me to the wine site, but i have access to good cottage lands and the sea if i want to head over to the other cointent and expand there with astronomy later.

Made some good trades with the ai. Writing for fishing with monty, Asethetics for alphabet with Jaou, and I got iron working off somebody else (cant remember who)

But then the war horn blares and the screen that the human player hates to see from shaka appears.On Turn 106 He dow's on me. So now is the time to start whipping archers, least i have a good few hill archers in the city he's targeting, and i should have iron up in no time.

This is so annoying, i sudve known better, i thought i was safe as shaka was annoyed with linclon, but no he has to go for the human as always.Well we'll see if Protective hill archers are enough vs his impi/sword stacks. Im just worried about the jewish block now and i may switch out of Hindu into no state religion. I know that will cause monty's status to drop with me but im worried about a dogpile from JC. Dose anybody have any advice? I will provide the save with this.

The plan from here is to go for Monarchy->Currency->Philo-> Lib. I think if i hold this attack off im going to kill shaka and take his cities. I also plan on exploring the rest of the landmass and growing my cities with Monarchy. The big question is should i go to war here on this landmass or should i just go ahead and settle the new world.

I also plan on Switching into no state religon, as religion obv wont influence anything with shaka, so i might as well wait for the AI's to spread Jewism to me.

 

[pigswill]

@stevoh

Spoiler :

You're very brave blocking off Shaka before you have metals connected. If he picks on Guangzhou you're in with a chance. His archer will probably occupy the goldmine next ibt. Be mindful of impis' two moves, they'll probably do some pillaging and worker stealing if you're not careful.

I noticed that Jo and Monte are also wheeorn so probably can't be bribed to declare on Shaka. Worth checking if you have any other potential allies.

In my game I also got dowed by Shaka around the same time, fortunately I had 2 chokos before I lost iron: one died early, the other defeated the invasion almost single handed going from 3 to 18xp in the process. I also had a bunch of axes to help out.

Good luck .

 

[i_imperator]

@stevoh

Spoiler :

You're very brave blocking off Shaka before you have metals connected. If he picks on Guangzhou you're in with a chance. His archer will probably occupy the goldmine next ibt. Be mindful of impis' two moves, they'll probably do some pillaging and worker stealing if you're not careful.

I noticed that Jo and Monte are also wheeorn so probably can't be bribed to declare on Shaka. Worth checking if you have any other potential allies.

In my game I also got dowed by Shaka around the same time, fortunately I had 2 chokos before I lost iron: one died early, the other defeated the invasion almost single handed going from 3 to 18xp in the process. I also had a bunch of axes to help out.

Good luck .

Spoiler :

I actually checked the save myself shortly after this, If i switch to jewism i am actually able to get most of the other leaders to friendly and JC to pleased so that is my plan.

I think with protective hill archers i should be ok vs shaka, then the plan is to tech to cho-ko-nu's and trebs and take out him and monty and prehaps Jaou, unless i can get Jaou to Friendly, im already in HR and we're gonna be in the same religion so it is possible to do just that.

My only concern now is my research plans after my cho ko nu attack on Shaka/Monty.Im thinking about teching towards astro, and settling the new world. I dont think i'll be able to get lib unless i switch into Pacisifm/Caste. Any suggestions? Jc is currently in a war with Linlon so there is a chance he will vassle him if he has'nt done so allready, so i have to worry about that aswel.

Also i should be well able to get a 10exp unit for HE, and im wondering what would be the best site for it, im thinking the crab/bronze coastal city, if its on the coast i'll be able to combine it with Maoi statues later for good navy production as well as land units. My cap isnt running any scientists atm, Guangzhou is, will be able to tech towards machinery and go for a bulb, not an early bulb but at least i'll be able to do something

 

[Htadus]

@Steve

Spoiler :

I guess I did well by worker stealing shaka. His expansion got stymied greatly.

As for your game, do you have copper connected? If yes build a few axes. Then you can kill off units that the archers damage while defending.

You should make the religion change to ensure that no Dog pile take place. Either case your copper resource is easily defendable.

Astro is a good option for you since you have that branch opened. To bad you did not hold back trading for fishing to GS bulb Machinary, but Astro is a great option via bulbing.

However, I think you still can get Lib. I would bulb Philo with my first GS and trade for Feudalism and other techs I need. Learn Paper, use 2nd GS to part bulb Education and complete it, and use 3rd GS to nearly bulb Liberalism. To do this you will need to skip Machinary. It is typically a good trade item with AI since they like machinary before CS.

 

[i_imperator]

@Htadus

Spoiler :

Thanks for the advice, Ah i suppose thats why people didnt trade or research fishing/sailing early, I was wondering why i had to research composs first, but i guess the GS bulb path is just something i have to work on, lesson learned. But i needed fishing for the crabs/bronze city anyway.

Yes i agree on the religion change, it seems to be the best option right now. Hopefully the AP will be in Jewism so i can get the research and production bonus from it. That would be nice.

So you recomend going for Philo first and go for lib instead of taking out shaka and monty with cho ko nu's. Hmm im a little torn on this, id like to get shaka/monty out of the way asap, and get a big land lead, if this was emperor i would be well able to do that. But maby your right about the tech first picture. I did play a bit later on and went for the cho ko nu route,managed to take out Shaka, he had Great Lightouse and GW.But JC ran away with tech w/ linlon as a vasasle, Jaou got lib by about 1020AD. So i think i'll try the tech route.

 

[Htadus]

@Steve,

Spoiler :

Oh no, I am not saying to skip war. Those you want to kill does not require the UU. Cats and others; axeman and swordmen will do fine. Choku's were great untill LB's showed up, but cats took care of the LB.

 

[i_imperator]

@Htadus

Spoiler :

Yay i can have my cake and eat it too then! Im gonna do just that, its a little late to be bulbing engineering right now anyways. What is the normal time to do so on immortal? I think in my first attempt i didnt get it until after 300AD, i presume thats too late.

 

[Htadus]

@Htadus

Spoiler :

Yay i can have my cake and eat it too then! Im gonna do just that, its a little late to be bulbing engineering right now anyways. What is the normal time to do so on immortal? I think in my first attempt i didnt get it until after 300AD, i presume thats too late.

Spoiler :

If you are refering to Engineering, I do not know. My trick ususally is building roughly 3 cats per city I intend to take. So assuming I plan to hit 4 cities, I bring 12 cats with 1 or 2 spears backed up with mainly axe force. 9 cats bombard fro 1 turns and lead off with 2 colateral promoted cats and finally a CR1 cat. Then it is upto mainly axes and swords. Higher the level, sooner this 1st war take place the primary defender is the Archer and cats chew them up while sacrificing themselvs.

My war started around 500 BC I think. But I did have Chokunu's with anti archer promoton. Nothing stopped tham. Losses were like 1 unit per city defended with 4 units. The defeders were archers, axes, spears and swords. The Choku collateral dammage is a killer.

 

[pigswill]

1180ad. Immortal normal.

Spoiler :

To my great surprise I got to liberalism first, took PP from it. Cities have been mainly building research to support the lib race but I've got two cities in the new world. Shaka rebuilt his iron stealing city, most annoying but at least I've now got iron from the new world. Lincoln and Monte are still the most unpopular, Monte because he's the only hindu in a buddhist world. I joined in a Monte/Shaka war on Shaka's side, captured Ulundi from Monte and politely handed it back to Shaka. Mehmed vassalised to Rags. Rags and Shaka have just declared on Lincoln, Jules has just declared on Monte.
With liberal tech trading I'm just about keeping up in tech. I'm aiming for communism to be able to afford overseas expansion.

Advice always welcome.

 

[learner gamer]

Immortal / normal to 625 BC.

Spoiler :

Early tech path went hunting > AH > TW > BW. Settled cow / rice / gold as city #2. Decided to place city #3 on grassland for sheep / corn to try and block off Shaka. This meant the post BW tech path went mysticism (to whip monument in blocking city ASAP) > pottery (for one pop whip granaries) > writing (for a library to run science specialists in the food rich blocking city) > masonry (to chop a cheap – thanks to PRO - wall in the blocking city). It also meant that city #4 was settled for the sheep / copper.

Has the gamble worked? Well, the good news is that Shaka’s blocked off. The bad news is that he’s gone WHEOOHRN. As a result, I’ve just whipped a 2nd axe in the blocking city and a 3rd will follow ASAP. Another will join from copper city via a chop. I can now also trade for archery by giving up writing to Mehmed. I guess we’re about to find out...wish me luck!

Re: cities. I managed to settle a FP city to cottage SE of the blocking city, another for some wine and have a settler en route to nab some fur for a much needed happy cap boost.

Re: tech. The post masonry / writing world saw a run at a very late (725 BC) Oracle (via meditation) to nab MC. I’ve since teched maths and just traded it and priesthood to Lincoln for alpha.

The plan now is to sell mysticism to JC for 30 gold, Mehmed writing for archery and Joao maths for IW. If anyone can suggest an alternative trade to acquire IW I’d love to hear it. Meanwhile, I’ll look to tech aesthetics as fast as possible and then use my GS to bulb machinery. If I can just manage to hold off Shaka’s forthcoming attack, nab peace and find some iron , I might just be able to hit him back with cho-ko-nus.

 

[Htadus]

To 625 BC.

Spoiler :

Early tech path went hunting > AH > TW > BW. Settled cow / rice / gold as city #2. Decided to place city #3 on grassland for sheep / corn to try and block off Shaka. This meant the post BW tech path went mysticism (to whip monument in blocking city ASAP) > pottery (for one pop whip granaries) > library (to run science specialists in the food rich blocking city) > masonry (to chop a cheap – thanks to PRO - wall in the blocking city). It also meant that city #4 was settled for the sheep / copper.

Has the gamble worked? Well, the good news is that Shaka’s blocked off. The bad news is that he’s gone WHEOOHRN. As a result, I’ve just whipped a 2nd axe in the blocking city and a 3rd will follow ASAP. Another will join from copper city via a chop. I can now also trade for archery by giving up writing to Mehmed. I guess we’re about to find out...wish me luck!

Re: cities. I managed to settle a FP city to cottage SE of the blocking city, another for some wine and have a settler en route to nab some fur for a much needed happy cap boost.

Re: tech. The post masonry / writing world saw a run at a very late (725 BC) Oracle (via meditation) to nab MC. I’ve since teched maths and just traded it and priesthood to Lincoln for alpha.

The plan now is to sell mysticism to JC for 30 gold, Mehmed writing for archery and Joao maths for IW. If anyone can suggest an alternative trade to acquire IW I’d love to hear it. Meanwhile, I’ll look to tech aesthetics as fast as possible and then use my GS to bulb machinery. If I can just manage to hold off Shaka’s forthcoming attack, nab peace and find some iron , I might just be able to hit him back with cho-ko-nus.

Spoiler :

You can do a one way trade via war, against Shaka. I bet he has IW by now. Nice thing is you wont have to dow him.

 

[learner gamer]

@Htadus:

Spoiler :

Thanks for your feedback! Yeah, Shaka has metal – there’s a plains tile 2S of Ulundi that I can see has been mined. Extorting IW for peace isn’t something I’d thought of...I wonder how many units of his I’d have to kill before he’s willing to give it up. I’m sure there’ll be no shortage of them when he DoWs.

Re: trading for IW. Writing this has actually given me another idea....trading writing to Mehmed for archery will open up maths to him. I could therefore conceivably trade maths to Mehmed for IW next turn. At least that’ll keep maths (and access to construction via masonry) out of the hands of Shaka and Monty (targets for my cho-ko-nus), JC (who’s already teching well) and the nearby Joao.

 

[learner gamer]

Immortal / normal. Mini update to 300 BC. Would appreciate guidance re: tech path.

Spoiler :

Great news! Shaka DoW’d at 600 BC with an axe, 2 archers and an impi...which were dispatched by my combat I promoted axes. I even managed to counter and pillage a couple of his cottages for some much needed gold. Peace was taken in 475 BC.

Shaka being Shaka , I’m sure he’ll DoW again, but I’ve finally made it to aesthetics and so can bulb machinery. Iron will be online next turn so whipping of cho-ko-nus can commence. Any advice re: how to have sped up the timing of the rush would be appreciated.

Very interestingly, Monty and JC have also gone into WHEOOHRN mode. I hope I’m not Monty’s target! Fingers crossed, JC is going for Joao or Lincoln.

Re: tech. Currency is the obvious choice here IMHO. Although JC has it, I’m not sure how soon it’ll be available for trade. Thereafter, I’m wondering if literature or drama > music has value (assuming Joao doesn’t proceed down those lines following aesthetics) – if only for the Epics. After all, the rush (if it works ) will likely produce a GG / super medic and open up the HE. Another – perhaps off the wall – avenue is to continue to avoid fishing and also CoL, which would open up an engineering bulb for trebs (with cho-ku-nus) to continue the fight to Monty. I guess the key will be when he gets longbows. Any advice on this front would be really welcome.

 

[Htadus]

^^
I can not look at the save. But.

Spoiler :

I would head to music for free GA, by then more AI will have Currency and you will be able to trade for it. This also give you HE if you take Lit path.

By all means skip fishing and Bulb Engineering. I had that intention but messed up by trading for fishing in the mids of the frenzy . Had I done that this game would ahve been a cakewalk.

Did you save some forests? Chop them into chokunu's. 2 pop whip if you are into that kind of stuff. I recommenf anti archary promotion, worked great for me. With the chopps, I had choku's every 2 turns. Happy colateral damage rampage.

 

[learner gamer]

@Htadus:

Spoiler :

Thanks very much once again for your feedback.

Re: tech. The question going through my mind re: the music line is whether Joao – who’s now only 2 turns from finishing aesthetics – will pursue music for the same reason. I recall reading somewhere (I think from @Dhoomstriker) that the AI have certain “flavours” given to them when choosing a tech path....I don’t suppose you happen to know whether there exists any code which might enable me to ascertain the probability that Joao pursues the music line? Having done a quick search to try and answer this question without any success, I might also PM @Dhoomstriker to see if she / he has an idea.

I ask BTW because I’m not sure I can beat out an immortal AI to music (given that Joao is almost at aesthetics), since research is about to slow courtesy of unit production. I guess the question is whether I can use war booty to propel me to music faster than Joao can pursue it, if he takes that path. Perhaps it might also be worthwhile turning off the slider for a bit to see which path Joao takes.

Re: forests. There are a couple around, but quite a few have gone into barracks (for the XP) and forges (for the hammer and happy cap boosts). I’ll probably have to stack some whip weariness and then also look to whip some units out of Shaka’s (hopefully ) ex-cities to continue the fight on to Monty (with the aid of trebs).

Re: engineering. Thanks for the tip, much appreciated!