Immortal University 92 - Justinian

[Mitchum]

Interesting start. Settling on the stone looks strong, but so does BIC's suggestion of E+SE of the settler (i.e. where the warrior is standing for those that have issues with directions ).

Since you are along me in Kaku, you know I'm an idiot when it comes to use a compass.

I'm glad I'm not the only one. I'm good with north/south and left/right. Throw in east or west and I'm all over the place. I get it right 83% of the time.

Funny story totally of topic

Spoiler :

I was telling this girl how to get to the place we were supposed to meet. I was coming from the north and I thought she was coming from the south. To avoid confusion, rather then telling her the bar was on the left or right side of the road, I said that it was on the east side of the road.

Her response:

Spoiler :

Will it be on my east or your east?

Spoiler :

I think this takes messing up east and west to the next level... so don't feel too bad, Tachy!

 

[Izuul]

Immortal 1370 Conquest

Spoiler :

I settled 1E of the corn (where the warrior starts) for the cottage cap. 2nd city went 1E of the horses. It wasn't a stellar spot, but it grabbed horses for barb defense and later helped grow several cottages for the cap. 3rd, 4th, and 5th cities were 1 NW of the sheep, 1S of the southern sugar, and on the wine to the NE.

GLH would've been nice here, but there was really nowhere for me to build it since i settled my cap inland. Instead, i hooked up the stone and chopped out the Mids fairly late in 825BC. Switching into Rep really helped out the happiness situation in addition to providing nice bpt. I also ended up with an engineer as my first GP at roughly 33% odds. I used him to rush the TGL in the food rich city to the north, and eventually got the NE there as well, though it took quite awhile to do it with no marble, no forests, and limited hammers.

I got a 620 MT Lib with 1 bulb in Edu, and 1 in Lib. I only managed to get 1 GM though as the would-be-second rolled GS at ~25% odds. I had 20 HAs ready to upgrade, but just 2k gold, so i was able to upgrade only about 12 of them initially. I traded Mehmed something ludicrous like 3 resources and 80gpt for his spare Iron, upgraded my units, and attacked him on the next turn in 760 AD. He was at war with Freddy at the time and his stack wasn't anywhere near his territory to defend. I took two cities on the first turn, gained access to the iron that i lacked, and began upgrading the rest of my troops. After taking 5-6 cities, Mehmed eventually caved. It probably would've been quicker if his stack had been around to destroy.

From there things were pretty easy as i went after Cyrus > Capac > Pacal > Freddy > Sal. The religions fell pretty nicely in this game with Freddy and Sal in their own religions while everyone else was Jewish. That ensured my safety while teching to Lib, and also caused quite a few wars amongst the other AI.

 

[Dubioza]

Hellow IU!

Before I start, I just want to say that I wanted to play IU91, but my PC wouldn't be able to cope with that map - toward the end that would be like 60 cities, I had that in NC Washington game and I barely finished it. If that would be small (or even smaller) map, I would definitely try highlands. Anyhow, let's get started!

But before I do that, I have to say that's my third attempt;

1. Right after I settled second city, first thing I did was mining the hill - and few turns later gold popped there. I had to go afk for few minutes and my genius gf exited the game. When I loaded last autosave, gold wasn't there. So I started over.

2. I did everything the same, and this time copper popped there! Then I got stupid and lost first 3 warriors and 3rd settler to barbs.
Alt + F4, Del all saves, Turn Off, get out. Then I came back and I read about 1/10000 chance of resource popping like that. :suicide:

3. I almost gave up on it, but I couldn't get it out of my head. Third time's the charm, right?

So here it is.

Spoiler :

Settled on stone, started with worker. Research: Agri - Min - BW, and as I didn't see any copper, AH.

This time I met AI's later then before, in T20 Mehmed, T25 HC, T27 Cyrus. On T37 I settled Thessalonica, T52 Adrianople. Only in T53 I met Sally and there are still 2 AI's missing. Weird, like my following research path: after AH, Pott - Fish - Writing. In T58 got 74 from Stonehenge. That helped with Writing - Hunt (as I planed to settle ivory further south) - Masonry - Aest.

In T69 I settled Nicaea (preroaded and ready to improve ivory) and in T80 Antioch (to help with future cottages for future capitol, Thessalonica). Then barb city (Gepid) spawned way up north (failed to bust there), I waited few turns for it to grow to size 2 and in T86 captured it. It was guarded by 3 archers, I had luck and lost only 1 chariot (first retreated at 22%+7% (victory+retreat) odds).

Spoiler Images :

Spoiler Thessalonica :

Spoiler Adrianople :

Spoiler SallyT53 :

Spoiler Failgold :

Spoiler Nicaea :

Spoiler Antioch :

Spoiler Gepid :

I didn't even notice the red fist (you can see on Antioch screen in T80 no one's plotting) and I totally forgot this is not sim city game (I'm building 'mids, yey!) so turn after I captured that barb city:

Spoiler Image :

I totally wasn't expecting that. If I saw the fist I'd convert to Buddhism, maybe it would help. He attacked with few Immortals north side and one south, taking my workers. Great, now I have 6 cities and 3 workers.

Next turn I finished Aest and met Pacal. Traded with Mehmed Aest for IW & Med and started on Alpha so I can trade it next turn. Iron! Got it near Nicaea! Finally I can make something other then chariots! Altho, they dealt with Immortals that took my workers I think with no losses (or only 1).

It took 2 turns to get Alpha, traded it with HC in T90 and turn later traded Alpha to Sally for PHood, Sail & Arch. And then I went into offensive, pillaged his iron and took Gordium (guarded by 2 archers) without losses at 22% and 67% odds! While chariot near Thessalonica killed his axe at 72% and injured, defended against his archer at 52% odds!! This gave me GGeneral. I think that Chariot7 deserves to become GMedic!

Spoiler Images :

Spoiler PacalT88 :

Spoiler Trade1-T88 :

Spoiler Trade2-T90 :

Spoiler Trade3-T91 :

Spoiler CapturedGordium :

Spoiler Odds1 :

Spoiler Odds2 :

Spoiler Odds3 :

Spoiler Geronimooo!!! :

T93 'mids finished and I switched to Rep. T94 finally met last AI! Is this really pangaea?! Mehmed converted to Buddhism, so I did too. And I refused to gift Pacal Aest, so I became his worst enemy.

Spoiler Images :

Spoiler FreddyT94 :

Spoiler Buddhism :

Spoiler CrazyPacal :

To be continued...

EDIT: Actually I already was his worst enemy.

EDIT: Forgot to mention: Emperor, normal, no huts/events.

 

[Smilingrogue]

What the hell am I supposed to do to stop a pre-Alpha war prep? I can't bribe anyone else in, I can't beg anything and I don't have any useful military tech to stop the attacker. My archers get putrid odds against City raider Swordsmen. This BS happened twice. First in the NC Elizabeth game, I get declared on pre 1000 BC and now this time again I have a neighbour declare on me at 300 BC.

Spoiler :

We don't have copper. We have horses but all the chariots I spammed could do nothing to stop Immortals, Swords, Axes and Spears Cyrus flooded me with. Archers couldn't hold the line. I got to Horse Back Riding and started spamming Horse Archer and took the first city he took from me back. But he now took another city and his troop count keeps growing, my HAs can't win a fight worth a damn, I just got Iron hooked up. But fat lot of good axes and spears will do at this stage. (Iron is located in places Cyrus or Mehmed could easily claim before we get there, so I guess I got lucky getting at least that. Oh, joy!

I took care not to settle in any one's face. Cyrus actually settled in my face after I claimed the sugar spot. He even had a demerit for close border tension with Huayna while he started plotting. I didn't have any such friction. But of course, peace weights! Oh, you all look like warrior sorts, I am going to be pleased with you even though you jerks did nothing to befriend me. What's that? The human player is Justinian? Must. Declare. War!

OK, rant over! Can I do anything at all to stop this BS?

I am attaching the save at the point I just gave up and quit. I don't know what I could have done differently. I couldn't have traded for Archery yet when he went into war prep. I could have self-teched it and chopped those out instead of huge stone tombs I built. But they didn't exactly perform well against

Spoiler :

Immortals.

 

[Izuul]

Sometimes there's just nothing you can do to prevent an early DoW. Generally speaking, the quicker you can get Alpha, the safer you are, but sometimes even that isn't helpful.

As far as defending your city is concerned, build walls, archers, and pray. Not having copper makes it tough since you can't counter with axes and spears.

 

[landy]

Has anybody ever considered a settler opening?
Some thoughts about it:
- we are IMP(it's a pity that the green hills are not forested, but still...);
- the cow is the second strong tile of our capital. If we go worker first, we won't have enough time to finish AH for the worker to develop it right after the corn (at IMM level);
- If we settle cap on the stone, 2nd city 1NE of the cow, the two cities are naturally connected by the lake and the river, so we have trade route income. Once the cap grows to pop 4 or 5, the corn can be passed to the 2nd city to accelerate its growth.


My try with settler opening at IMM level, normal speed. Result at T43 = BC2280:

Spoiler :

2 cities at POP 4 and POP 2, working corn + cow + horse + 2 green hills + forest;
2 workers;
2 warriors, the 3rd is half-built;
SH just grabbed; (a relative late date, considering our wonder-loving Huayna Capac's presence on the map...)
Tech path: Agri - AH - Masonry - Mining - Pottery(1 turn left);

EDIT:

Spoiler :

I try the worker opening on this start and compare the results.
By going settler instead of worker we gain ~20 more beakers but lose ~15 hammers at T43. And we grab the SH much later.
IF we had a forested green hill, settler opening would gain ~20 more beakers and lose nearly no hammers...
The God of map is not kind to us...

 

[kossin]

You can always settle a junk city close to the AI and offer it for peace.

 

[Smilingrogue]

I did consider gifting a junker. But the problem wasn't getting the AI in question to 'Pleased'. I adopted the AI's state religion as soon as it spread to me because I noticed the fist and this got it to Pleased with me.

The problem was there was nothing I could beg to buy myself ten turns of peace to do something useful. No Alphabet for either of us and no currency. In hindsight, I could have smashed my only source of cow and begged that off him, but such ideas don't come to me when my brain's in full on panic mode screaming "He's going to attack!! You must construct additional archers!!"

 

[kossin]

No, you offer the city for the peace treaty, not to get the AI pleased.

 

[Smilingrogue]

Won't talk to me. I guess he knows when he's winning. So, why take my city for peace when he can take a lot more at war?

Edit : Or do you mean liberating a city enforces a peace treaty? I didn't know it does that.

 

[klonoklown]

^ I think he means when said AI is willing to talk offer the junk city for peace.

 

[Izuul]

300 BC seems kind of late to not have Alpha + IW on a Pangaea map though. I can't say it doesn't happen, but typically you want Alpha earlier than that, and you should be able to get IW the turn after Alpha.

Spoiler :

The usual research order is necessary worker techs + Writing followed by something to trade for Alpha. I think i went Ag > AH > Mining > BW > Pottery > Writing > Masonry (for Mids) > Aesthetics, traded for Alpha somewhere around 800-900BC, and then picked up IW the next turn. I'd have to check my game log to confirm, but that should be fairly accurate.

Of course on this map gaining access to iron is no guarantee either. I got beaten to both spots in my game.

Edit: I was wrong, i got Alpha in 600s BC because i also teched Fishing before Aesthetics. I'm not sure that was really necessary though as those two cities could have survived with just the wheat and sheep long enough to trade for Fishing later.

 

[Smilingrogue]

Spoiler :

I got Alpha 450 BC and IW the same turn. I got side tracked picking up fishing and sailing as I wanted to settle the Crabs spot. All that went out the window when Cyrus's fist went up.

Mistakes were made. I can live with that. No one said learning Immortal's going to be easy. I will try the map again and this time win Dom or Conquest cause I want to kill something now. And I started this map wanting to win a peaceful culture victory!

Edit :

@ Landy

I only open settler first if the following conditions are met:
1. We are Imperialistic. (check)
2. We have a two hammer tile we can settle on right at the start without losing a tile. (check)
3. We don't have any agriculture food we can improve on and need to tech upto fishing or AH first to get any food going. (Not the case here)
4. We have a forested plains hill we can work from turn 0 to get the settler out in 15 turns. (Again, we don't have that.)

I have opened settler first a couple of times before with Imperialistic leaders when all the food around was a dry rice and some fish that needed fishing first, but I don't like gambling like that as if the first warrior feeds a bear the settler might come out with us not knowing enough of the land or he might feed a panther himself. I am clearly not the best player, but that's just my personal opinion.

 

[landy]

Well, my criterions are a little bit different than yours...
For Settler opening, I look for 1) IMP leader, 2)at least 4-hammer start and 3)nature trade route.
Because when I use an IMP leader, I usually find that my economy can't support my expansion.
An early and nearby 2nd city with the 2 trade route(one per city) is one of the easiest way to improve the economy(it benefits more that it costs), so I often aim at it if possible...

 

[Dubioza]

200 AD

Spoiler :

Out of Gordium I saw 2 immortals on the open and I took the shot. Lost one chariot, but killed them. That took me at the gates of Persepolis, guarded by 2 archers and immortal. Next turn he didn't whip anything, so I took my chances. Lost first, but dealt 1.3 damage to archer and won second at 2.5% odds!

Here is where I "cheated" (or should I say I made up for round with lost gold) - I saved the game and searched which chariot (if any) could win the next fight. In third attempt I found it and defeated immortal at 30% and with next one I captured it. Looking very good, might use that as NE city. I noticed he have one more iron NE.

Next turn I risked Geronimo at 68% against immortal and won (earned 6xp)! That gave me 2nd GGeneral, and I created another GMedic chariot. Finally I'm stacking up some metal units. Sally got Monarchy so I put few turns into it and traded it for Aest.

Spoiler Images :

Spoiler 1 :

Spoiler 2 :

Spoiler 3 :

Spoiler Persepolis :

Spoiler Geronimo68% :

Spoiler Trade :

Spoiler Robert E. Lee :

Then I saw his archer out on the open and I risked wounded Geronimo again. I saved before that, I thought if I loose I'll restart, to made up for round with lost copper LOL But I didn't have to. He won at 73% and earned another 6 xp. Pulled him back in Persepolis to heal when another immortal came in range. So I tried again; saved and used Geronimo again and he won at 50%! Earned 8 xp!! OK, that's it. No more saving in case he dies, so I better be careful. I think that made up for those rounds.

I got at pleased with HC so I begged him Poly. He gave it! Hehe, how much more luck can I have?? My metal stack closed in on Susa and took it with 2 losses. Cyrus finally realized he's loosing and was giving Math with peace treaty. I passed, I'm in great shape now! I pillaged horses near Persepolis - I shouldn't have, cause I'd get border pop in few turns. And apparently I do good against immortals! LOL Then Mehmed begged me for Poly, and I gave it to him. I continue toward Pasargadae, lost one chariot trying to kill another immortal in the open and finished it with Geronimo. He have 50 xp now! In the city, 2 archers, immortal & sword. I lost 1st sword, won with 2nd at 18%, lost couple of chariots and captured it with R. E. Lee.

Spoiler Images :

Spoiler Geronimo73% :

Spoiler Geronimo50% :

Spoiler HC my man! :

Spoiler Susa1 :

Spoiler Susa2 :

Spoiler 50 xp :

Spoiler 18% sword :

Spoiler Pasargadae :

At this point he was willing to give city of Tarsus with peace treaty. I know now that's his iron city, so I should've taken it - but I tried to add Curr & Math & Mono to equation. He accepted when I took Tarsus away. OK, 3 techs & 90 gold. Good enough! Switched to OR.

I raised :research: slider to 100% for Lit, followed by Drama on low slider. Decided to build HGardens in Constantinople for more GEngineer points. 2 turns later I got GEngineer at ~50% odds. I was really hoping for GScientist to bulb Philo. When I saw Tech situation, I wish I did get GScientist - HC is way ahead, and doesn't want to trade anything. So I had to bulb MC. Decided to move palace to Thessalonica. HC built AP, election went in my favor.

Spoiler Images :

Spoiler Offer :

Spoiler HGardens :

Spoiler TechSituation :

Spoiler MC :

Spoiler AP :

So now peace treaty ended, I have I think enough units in places for next turn's DoW, so I started building forges. I think I'll put HE in Nicaea, just whipped forge in Persepolis to OF into TGLibrary, future NE city.

Some Current Screens:

Spoiler Images :

Spoiler CityOverview :

Spoiler TechSituation :

Spoiler Demographics :

Spoiler Top5Cities :

Looking at Demographics screen I urgently need to improve my GNP. I can't run conquest economy any longer with outdated units. I can take out Cyrus (I hope) if no one interferes. And then tech to Lib? Or Guilds? Hmm, I have no idea...I have 10 cities, Cyrus 3 and I still have to backfill 2 on western peninsula. That would be 15. I need more workers!

Any help, comment & feedback much appreciated!

 

[Dubioza]

1000 AD

Spoiler :

In 225 AD I declared on Cyrus and lucky streak continues. Killed his axe & sword guarding worker at 4.6% and 30% with swords. Got GGeneral and settled him in Nicaea. 250 AD HGardens finished. How is it that in this stack GMedic was top defender (screen 3)? Luckily he survived. They closed in on Ecbatana and chariot I had behind him pillaged his iron, while other stack captured Bactra with 2 losses. Turn later Ecbatana fell without losses at 68%, 68% & 75% leaving him only Tarsus. I slowly closed in, join stacks and attacked in 350 AD. Won at 26%, 29% and twice at 27%. Captured it (it has settled GGeneral) and destroyed Persia.

Spoiler Images :

Spoiler 4.6% :

Spoiler 30% :

Spoiler 3 :

Spoiler Bactra :

Spoiler ClosingIn :

Spoiler Ecbatana :

Spoiler Tarsus1 :

Spoiler Tarsus2 :

Spoiler Tarsus3 :

Spoiler Tarsus4 :

I had 300 in bank and was loosing 30/turn on 0% slider, so I researched CoL. 400 AD Sally declared on Freddy and I sent my chariots to scout HC - he is way more advanced, but maybe I can outnumber him (what I learned from last LP I watched LOL) and force him to give me some of his techs. And yeah, he was weak! One LB and 2 swords? No one wants to trade me anything, so best units I can build are still swords. In 425 AD turn Sally asks me to convert to hindu. I accepted, but crap, that'll slow me down as I have only 2 hindu cities. And finally TGLibrary finished. After I saw weak HC I switched to building swords again and started on Feudalism while swords gathered in Tarsus and Bactra. Got 74 from Colossus and GScientist with which I bulbed Philo and founded Tao in 560 AD LOL

Spoiler Images :

Spoiler DoW :

Spoiler HC's land :

Spoiler Sally :

Spoiler CityOverview :

Spoiler TechSituation :

Spoiler HC Trade :

Spoiler Philo :

600 AD I traded with Sally for Feud (250 beakers left) for Lit, started on Music and after much thinking if it would be possible to win this, I declared on HC. One stack was closing on Tiwanaku from north while other to Olla....smtg from south. Research - Music, but like most of the game, on 0%, waiting for conquest gold. Captured Ola....smtg, and turn later Tiwanaku with 5 lost swords (1 at 96% - not the best approach, but fastest). I started to close in on Cuzco, killing few maces , loosing few swords, and settled another GGeneral in Nicaea. Traded with Mehmed Drama for Calendar, while balancing cities working swords - wealth - research.

Spoiler Images :

Spoiler Trade :

Spoiler NorthernStack :

Spoiler SouthernStack :

Spoiler Ola....smtg :

Spoiler Tiwanaku1 :

Spoiler Tiwanaku2 :

Spoiler Trade :

I got to Music, but didn't get GArtist - was busy with war, totally forgot to check that stuff, started on CS. In 720 AD OCFreddy capitulated to Sally and I got 20% GEngineer which could bulb Machinery, so I tried to trade and got Machinery from Sally for Drama & Music. Then he could bulb Construction, so I traded it for CoL (with Sally again), and now I bulbed almost full Engineering.

Spoiler :

Spoiler 1 :

Spoiler Trade1 :

Spoiler Trade2 :

Spoiler Bulb :

Continuing in next post.

 

[Dubioza]

Stil 1000 AD

Spoiler :

And then I attacked Cuzco. Lost half of my stack, but captured it. I waas checking if he wants PTreaty, but he wouldn't talk to me. So I continued to his last city and killed him in 780 AD, loosing 5 swords on 1 LB. There is settled GArtist from Music. Traded with OCFreddy for HBR. Now I can build something other then swords!

Spoiler Images :

Spoiler Payback1 :

Spoiler Cuzco :

Spoiler Trade :

Spoiler Payback2 :

So I went scouting...

Spoiler LOL :

Yep, looks doable. I was not happy with slider at 0 most of the time, HC's land helped to at least have it on 10% with half of cities building wealth. I researched CoL and still haven't build any CHouse...this is freaking hard!

So I started stacking up units in Tarsus again. Took control of AP again. Switched to Bureau and finally hit me to switch back to buddhism, as I still had only 2 hindu cities. In 900 AD I finally got GScientist and he waits for Paper to finish. In 960 AD I declared on Pacal, when some of cats arrived. Sally is going for Paper as well, thankfully I have GS ready to bulb Edu. Ye, no time for guilds, going for Lib asap.

Pillaged his iron and closed in on Lacamba. Finally Paper finished and GS bulbed part of Edu. I didn't even kill one of his units, and he's already wiling to sign PTreaty. I'll have pass on that and see how that first city goes.

Spoiler Images :

Spoiler AP :

Spoiler Religion :

Spoiler GS :

Spoiler DoW :

Spoiler ClosingIn :

Spoiler Bulb :

Spoiler NotYet :

This is really hard, not to be able to tech. Maybe I chose wrong tactic? I know I shouldn't have expanded that much, but conquest gold was only thing that kept me going. Now I have enough workers, enough resources, happy cap +10 or so. But missing CHouses the most, and probably something I don't see. Maybe I should spread hindu and convert back, 2 biggest AI's are hindu. I have no idea.

Kingdom for Your thoughts!

 

[cseanny]

@ Smilin

Spoiler :

Got a pre 1000 BC 1st declaration save? And who attacked you during the 1st war? And Cyrus should be easy to deal with by the time 300 BC rolls around. He's not a unit spammer (6/10) and prefers wonders, and he cannot declare on you at pleased. For the 1 AD save why aren't you in PS?

Need more info

 

[cseanny]

Immortal, Normal, 1000 BC

Spoiler :

SIP and teched Agr > AH > Mining to start off with, saw horsies in bfc and immediately went chariot spam > and conquered Cyrus Capital and city just to the south while grabbing stealing 3 workers during the war. Sued for peace and expanded 2 more times while chopping out the Mids in Cyrus' old Capital.

Should have room for 10+ cities but more than likely will just conquer Cyrus' last city a bit later (hopefully he'll settle some more/and workers too) and maybe settle 1-2 more spots myself. Will head up towards Cuirs and stomp world.

 

[Tempesta13]

Start to 125 AD

Spoiler :

First game I've played in a long time - didn't take many screenshots. I settled on stone and built Great Wall and Pyramids. Got a great spy and will start stealing techs from Cyrus since he's so close. Got 6 decent cities and got Cyrus happy so diplo should be good.

A little behind but should have no trouble getting lib.

1810 AD Domination

Spoiler :

Got an earlyish Lib around 800 AD and took Nationalism. Used a Great Engineer to build The Taj. Can't remember (since I played IU 90 after this game) but I think I was going for Rifles or Cavs because there was no Iron - but then Iron popped and I switched to cannons/elephants/cataphracts to attack Mehmed. With Iron earlier I would have gone Cuirs probably and not waited so long to get more land.

This is my only screenshot... Killed Mehmed first (and the AIs killed Frederick), then went for HC w/ Cataphracts and Cannons. HC and Cyrus had been fighting each other which made it easier. Eventually I added Rifles in there and finished the game in 1810 AD I think.