Immortal++ University XV - Churchill in a Hostile Continent

[Dirk1302]

@ABigCivFan

Spoiler :

You're doing ok under difficult circumstances , i know you're a valiant player, i'd have made peace with Genghis directly after teching aest, it won't help him that much and you're off the hook.

One thing i don't understand, why settle on the gold? I've been told it's overrated but i didn't know it's overrated that much. You're throwing away 8 commerce a turn in a stage of the game where it really matters. I could never do that.

 

[mzprox]

I'm playing this game too, very exciting so far
Too bad my gameplay not really suitable for immortal+ difficulty as i hate doing war in civ, so i usually just defend myself if necessary.

Spoiler :

I dont really remember the date i am in now as i dont write this at home, but I already have redcoats which is in good use as Napoleon and his vassal, Pacal II are attacking me :/
In the begining i could build only 4 cities. Fortunately i joined the right religion "club" i think, there was a lucky event which turned the mongols to "our side", Shaka, Catherin and Gilgamesh was with us (we have Judeaism), Napoleon Pacal and the Incas were buddhist.
I avoided any early DoW, tho my military was very weak.. i have built the pyramid, the great library so i was good in teching (i lost music with 1 turn, but at least i got liberalism and later physics
when i was teching toward education i tried to get more cities to be able to build the Oxford. i could build one more city and took one from Napoleon which he took from Pacal a few turns earlier. It was a quite interesting war.:

Napoleon attacked Pacal. My inital plan was to join this war and take a few cities from the weakened Pacal. However i had no significant military so i had to start building it. Meanwhile the Mongols declared on Napoleon, and Pacal already lost two cities. when i was almost ready to attack Pacal this war was over: Pacal agreed to become Napoleon's vassal. My plan changed: now i wanted to get those cities which Napoleon got from Pacal, so i sent my military next to these cities and waited for Napoleon to send his units to the mongols whom he was still war with. When i was almost ready to attack an other suprise: apostolic vote to finish the war with Napoleon (Pacal had the apostolic palace). I declared war at once, took one city in the same turn. Next turn the vote succsed and i had my shortest war in my civ games .
Now i had 6 cities to build the Oxford u.
(However from this day on every vote was about liberating that city to Pacal which i had to defy every time :/ )

There was a long peace which ended when Napoleon/Pacal declared war on me a few turns ago. I was in pacifism, i had a small obsolete army but i was able to upgrade it to redcoats. fortunately i could bribe the mongols into war on my side, i hope they can hold up Napoleon's army (which is around 40 units! just from that direction) so i can defend until we can talk about peace.
At this time I'm the second most advanced civ, interestingly Catherine-who is a vassal of Gilgamesh- is leading.. i dont know how is she doing it. She is a vassal, She has less cities than the others and still She is ahead with 3 techs and I'm also ahead of everyone else by 3-5 techs

.

 

[Berkobob]

@ Dirk:

Thanks for your comments on my game.

Spoiler :

IMO if there was ever a situation/leader to spam archers/walls, this was it. Probably cost me some land though.

I only built the Pyramids as I did not want to build more military or cities, my economy was dying due to all the archer defenders and workers. Was planning on turning capital into GP farm after building Glib/NE - hence wanted farms to run more mines as well as more specialists.

But yeah, cottaging is probably better to support grabbing a few more city sites early on, when they cost a Settler and an Archer and not a stack of elephants/cats .

I think you are right, I can grab a site to the east from Shaka if I hurry. I'm hoping that a few AI's will be backwards when I get construction as there is great land to pump out an army fast.

@ all: It looks like a fun game, your saves are all very educational. Maybe if I pay attention I can finally stop slumming it at Emperor level.

Good luck to everyone!

 

[mzprox]

I have finished my game, result below:

Spoiler :

Gilgamesh won a cultural victory... i had a big advantage in technology, i'm pretty sure that i would have won the space race. I already had the space elevator and i could build/finished every part except the life support.
I really hate cultural victory btw, for me it's too cheap.. Especially at high levels the Ai can do everything at once: building military, getting culture, teching for space race- and i just can't be competitive in everything .
I know that at this difficulty i should have killed my competitors, but I'm too much a builder type (for me it was enough that Napoleon and his vassal wanted to kill me all the time ( i had 4-5 wars with them)
anyway, at least i survived till the end (which was around 1920 AD.)

 

[MattX]

Died again ...

Spoiler :

Learning loads by trying this. I was simply pleased to not get killed until the 1400ADs. Lots of defending meant I had 4 settled GG and whilst running vas and theo I'd just begun to produce units with CG, drill plus 4 more promotions in London.

I think there is a strategy to be had in expanding towards and wiping out the Zulus next time ...

 

[ABigCivFan]

Until 1400AD

Got triple teamed early...

Spoiler :

@Dirk, I settled on that gold desert hill for the following reasons:

1. Hill bonus+river bonus. I did not feel like defending 2 cities on flat lands. since i need many defenders in Nuttinghill which is on flat land, i can defend this hill city a lot easier just in case

2. Low food city, will take very long time until I could work 2 gold mines, so i just settled on one gold to get it right away.

3. it claims another Ivory which AIs often will give me 2 Resources for early on.

4. York will mostly likely become a prod city, commerce here does not matter much.

GK will not end war unless I give him Nuttinghill which is impossible, i d rather keep fighting and earn more GG pts.

125AD: Got doubled by GK and Shaka. Good that my 5th city bording Shaka is also on hill. Note i am taking the Feudalism/CS route since defending with pure archers is not fun. Protective Longbows will ensure our survival....



150AD: I built HE in capital anticipating major war ahead. HE+later Beaur means +150% unit prod. I will need this kind of mil powerhouse. London will mostly like get HE+Oxford and become a super science+mil city. I pretty much give up on GP prod this game as survival is the key early.



350AD: kill loss stats. I never used archer to this extend, but this is amazing, trading 19 prot archers with cats and phants (70 dead attackers)! we need all kinds of bonues Fortify+hill+medic. do not move your archers around and station them in troubled cities early.




520AD: Nappy joined the fun i am now trippled teamed by the 3 best warmongers in the game!! GK+Shaka+Nappy haha....

Again, York being on the hill will again face a big challenge after fending off GK...

Soon I made a GG longbow unit in York with CG3+Gurilla2+Drill4 and this guy is capable of killing up to 10 catapults in a single battle.




600AD: Did you see the difference after switching from Archers to Longbows?

Nappy lost his entire army against York defending LBs within 5 turns and accepted peace.

Here is the new kill loss stats




Shaka/HC build AP, ended war with him on a AP vote. Another random event ended war witg GK. So after 2000 years of tough wars, I enjoyed brief peaceful build up. I missed on everything like Lib race, taj, just playing catch up. Trade anyting possible and joined the largest religion club - the Hindus.

I tried to get everyone busy with a few bribes Gilgamesh buit Sistine, maybe aiming for culture, HC is running away in tech.




1410AD: I got steel/rifle, bunch of CR2 mace, and ready to rock Nappy. the plan is to take out NAppy, capture GW then turn East against Shaka and HC. HC is Shaka's Vassle but is tech away, had to stop him soon.



This has been the most challending Immortal game I have ever played, no less difficult than a typical Deity game given the extreme hostile neighbours... I am not sure whether I could pull this off but will do my best...

 

[Snaaty]

What´s so interesting about this game is the fact that you have to defend yourself early. This makes it quite a challenge combined with the start right in the middle, because you cant simply builder and tech along...

Spoiler :

I dont know when I have time to continue playing, but my plan is to beeline construction and go on the offence early, because in my game the next backstab is just a matte of time also... ...maybe I even beeline feuda to keep my home save while going berserk somewhere

 

[Dirk1302]

@ABigCivFan until 1400 AD

Spoiler :

@ABigCivFan, your game looks extremely interesting, couldn't you get GK to peace with aest early? I can see your reasons for founding the city on the the gold hill, iirc i settled on the plain hill next to it, i immediately farmed one tile and the others right after the border pop and had the gold running relatively soon. Have to look at the saves tonight
Does Nappy have rifling or cannons yet? Looking at Biolology (11) 1410 AD your research is ok but probably not enough to overtake Huyna. You'll probably turn on him if Nappy's down or set GK on him.

I actually took Huyna on after Zulu's bribing GK to join me.I had to fight with Redcoats/Cannons against Infantry/Cannons. Normally i don't think much of redcoats and also about this line up but here i had so much promotions from being redcoat + protective + the fight against the Zulu's that they were almost equal to infantry. In addition Huyna's always weak on defence also because the attack courage is of his troops is low, he went down easy even when he got artillery later.I did have a solid stack to begin with. Genghis is big in my game though (vassalized Cathy and Gilg early) so victory's still not totally sure. He's fighting Nap now (got lucky he didn't turn on me), he'll win that fight i think and then i'm the only one he can attack and he'll do so unless i get him to friendly.

@Snaaty

Spoiler :

I agree with the need to goto war early as i wrote in my last post already iirc, Huyna'll just get too big if we wait until renaissance to acquire more land,

@MattX until ~1000 AD

Spoiler :

Wiping out Zulu's is what i did when he declared on me again, he was actually very weak in my game.

I've played until ~1500 Ad now will write an update tonight.Compared to others i feel i got a bit lucky this game, but still it was interesting enough and i haven't won yet. Game is certainly more difficult than your average immortal start.

 

[Dirk1302]

Until 1000 AD

Spoiler :

200 AD Zulu's declare on me again, i've had it with this guy really, he's weak and pathetic. 275 AD I bribe Ghengis and his Vassal Cathy against Zulu so he doesn't bother me anymore. In the mean time i research towards edu. Zulu's are happy to make peace with me 475 AD, Genghis is giving him hell. Huyna techs lib 560 AD, very early on immortal but not unexpected really. Actually it's a relief, i always feel the need to try if only halfheartedly for lib if it hasn't been discovered yet now i can go straight to engineering without bothering with philosophy or lib.

I've been building cats and phants in border cities and 680 AD it's payback time. I have to hurry actually or Genghis'll take all. I have rather an easy time, Genghis has weakened Shaka considerably already, i bribe him to peace actually somewhat later.

The first 300 years it's mostly cats, then trebs join the fray as well.
980 AD i'm at the gates of Ulundi. Not quite ready to take it as i'm a bit low on actual city takers but it won't be long. After that it's just a matter of time.

Due to the strong capital i'm doing fine research wise, 13 turns to steel 980 AD is not bad especially since i missed lib.

Genghis is in wheoohrn again, as it turns out he's after Gilg, maybe i should have given him some techs trying to get him to friendly, a double edged sword really since he's score leader already.

I foresee a possible future where Genghis and i'll be having it out on the battlefield, Nappy joining on one side or the other while Huyna is teching happily. So while i probably fight at tech parity at best i plan to take on Huyna next. I think i can just swarm him especially if i can get Genghis on my side. Huyna's not the best fighting ai in the game. Pacal'd be easier but the only city that won't be hopelessly pressed culturally is Mutal.

Overview:

 

[ABigCivFan]

1410AD-1705AD

Spoiler :

1410AD:

War plan:

1. Keep GK and Shaka busy with bribes, take down weaker French and Pacal to secure the East, south East Flank.

2. Bribe GK into war and Back-Stab him.



1490AD: multi-purpose bribe. Seperate Shaka from HC's religion, keep Shaka busy with GK while I mop up Nappy and Pacal.




1510AD: Captured Paris, prize city, I will show what this city looks like 200 years later. Nappy got some great city sites, I had everyone weaken him and went in for the kill.




1515AD: Peace bribe GK/Shaka, Peace Bribe GK/Nappy and War bribe GK/HC




1520AD: Civics HR+Bureau+Slavery+SP+OR for building.

1540AD: Ask Nappy to capitulate, he accepted. Took down French in 130 years. Next target Pacal. Now I have a elite City taking forces with many CR3 cannons + CR3 upgraded Redcoats

1555AD: Pacal City captured, will become Wall Street city.



1585AD: Steam rolled over Pacal got some nice cities. the CR3 redcoats do not even need to stop and heal, with half the strength, they still take cities after cannon bombard.

I built many CR2 mace with 7xp under Theo, send them along the CR2 cannons to mop up, after each fight, I promote them to CR3 and upgraded to RedCoat.




1595AD: Tured my attention to GK, captured 1 city, destroy large# of his units in my territory (GW) and sued for peace.




1675AD: Rested and resumed war against GK, captured his Capital (5 Military Instructors!!!)




1675AD: Finally able to bribe Shaka against HC. I intentionaly gave him Military Techs so he could fight a more advance HC with shear numbers.

Cathy DOWed Shaka next turn, she prob had a DP with HC.




1705AD: Empire view grabbed some great land, killed Pacal, Vasseled Nappy and GK.




1705AD: Capital Super science and HE city. London was the source of all our early military success.




1705AD: IW+Mil Academy Nuttingham. The power of Levee...




1705AD: Built NE here turned this to a Very late GP Farm.




1705AD: Shrine + Wall Street + Sushi (not really needed but had a GM waiting) City. After WS and Sushi HQ, this city can easily pump out 400-500GPT.




1705AD: Paris. This is without an Academy. I put a Mil Academy here too. Just converted some farms to Cottages after max out worker populations.




1705AD: Winning Options. Domination, Space, Diplo everything within grasp.

 

[Gliese 581]

I'll play this if I have time but I have a tight schedule as it is, also running my own game. Fallout 3 also coming soon for me.. oh well if only one could buy time at the supermarket.

 

[Dirk1302]

@ABigCivFan,

Spoiler :

Game is won now. Nap went down fairly easy. You can probably join Shaka against Huyna in the near future.I chose Huyna in my game since Nap was fairly strong and taking Pacal with Nap wasn't going to do me any good. Interesting to see that Zulu's grew into so much power, in my game it was GK.

 

[ungy]

My game goes differently than most--and I could use any advice:

Spoiler :

I pop a scout early on and get a decent look at the map.
There are a lot of AI units running around and not that much space so I gamble and skip archery and settle the bronze towards Nappy.
The AI go after each other early on and looks inconclusive.
I also get Hindu which my neighbors have so..
I take a shot at the mids (fail).
So now I have 4 cities planning an expansion war with cats/jumbos, probably against Shaka.
At the moment I'm just building units to shore up defenses as the AI recently made peace.
The problems I anticipate are twofold:
Hindu all around--I could have an AP problem
There is great commerce but not a lot of excess food for whipping so it won't be easy to get a large army together.

 

[Dirk1302]

^

Spoiler :

your game looks a lot like mine, didn't go for mids though, almost never do. I also settled near the copper , near gold and near the northern corn with all the phants. Especially the latter city has good production in itself, i built HE there. Together with the production rich capital i could churn out units at a decent if not great rate. If you begin building units early enough you'll have a decent army when the time is right.

AP is a nuisance of course, you may have to defy. Attack when a resolution has just come up to buy some time. And of course build monasteries/temples in anticipation in all cities, those 4 hammers are golden.

Regarding info about AP, i've defied solutions in the past. It gives nasty 5 unhappiness in all cities with AP religion. I always thought that this unhappiness disappears if you next vote for a resolution that passes. But recently i found that this was not the case. Does anyone know how this works exactly and is it any different for UN?

 

[ABigCivFan]

@Dirk

Spoiler :

Yes, I got Nappy triple teamed by GK/Shaka/Pacal prior to my invasion, he lost bulk of his highly promoted offensive units before my CR army came in for the mop up.

Interestingly, had GK focused on someone else earlier, he could have become stronger, instead he wasted so many good units against my protective archers and longbows.

As for Shaka, he had large land area, but backwards. I kind of petted him, gifted him many military techs to keep him strong and bribed him to fight whoever I wanted.

The early fights and GGs were very helpful in setting up a conquest game, but do not underestimate early AI strength, need plenty of defenders in key cities.

 

[Joshua368]

Regarding info about AP, i've defied solutions in the past. It gives nasty 5 unhappiness in all cities with AP religion. I always thought that this unhappiness disappears if you next vote for a resolution that passes. But recently i found that this was not the case. Does anyone know how this works exactly and is it any different for UN?

For a city with only the AP religion, it lasts for 20 turns on normal speed and scales accordingly for quick/epic/marathon. Having extra religions in the city decreases the duration, I think by half or so.

 

[Dirk1302]

^Thx, that's helpful. Couldn't find a clear answer searching the forum. So for Un it's 20 turns period i presume.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

^Thx, that's helpful. Couldn't find a clear answer searching the forum. So for Un it's 20 turns period i presume.

Yeah. AP = UN but is reduced by other religions. If you have like 4 religions it's not very costly, other than the AP hammers. It's hard to get enough religions to offset it though, so defy can be a painful necessity.

 

[Dirk1302]

If it's halved by one extra religion it's doable, there are always some items that need to be whipped.Better be prepared though, switch to slavery in a GA if you foresee the need to defy.

I wonder where i got the idea about with voting for a passing resolution?

 

[TheMeInTeam]

If it's halved by one extra religion it's doable, there are always some items that need to be whipped.Better be prepared though, switch to slavery in a GA if you foresee the need to defy.

I wonder where i got the idea about with voting for a passing resolution?

That's how you get your hammers back.