Immortal University XX - Stalin

[cas]

Played this to about 200BC. I keep forgetting how ridiculous the AI bonuses are...

Spoiler :

Took out Monty around 375BC with chariots and axes...thought I was doing pretty good, but crashed the economy too early and Justinian already had 10 cities. 10 without CoL / couthouses. My economy was breaking even at 0% science and 5 cities.

I just can't get the right balance of early rush war + economy at immortal/deity. I guess I need to research currency asap at this level. Oracle didn't go until 300BC but you can't count on a late fluke wonder like that on immortal.

cas

 

[Tempesta13]

Immortal/Normal to 1 AD

Spoiler :

Settled in place and slowly got a few techs. Seemed like it took forever just to get all the basic ones but i guess that's immortal when you're trying to get a bunch of quick cities. Went archery as 2nd or 3rd tech - i saw horses and copper but hadn't met neighbors yet so i thought i might really need it. I blocked off a lot more land than i thought i would, including taking a barb city in the SE. Met monty quick which is always good news because he's good company - realized he's pretty close just somehow didn't scout my way at all. Definitely didn't need archery but oh well. Take Judaism when it spreads to me cause monty is a nice guy so i hope we can become friends. Went Aesthetics after writing finally came, then traded it around as much as possible - got alphabet, iron working, masonry and maybe a couple others. Currency will help - i delayed code of laws longer than i ever do in this game which didn't help me out much at all. I don't think i tech it for another few hundred years.

Glad i did that since the wars have started but i can sit back and watch this one.

1000 AD

Spoiler :

Got Drama so i could bulb philo and was first to it around 400 AD. Holy city went to my ice city in the NE. Went with my usual slow tech rate strategy but still looks like i'll get lib first easily. Not sure if it's cause of bad land or just me but research was pretty bad. (don't answer that...) Didn't farm GP's so i still don't have an academy. That isn't helping at all. Got civil service really late too. Missed great library (to monty) by a couple turns. I'm doing pretty good in tech just cause of trading - trying not to trade with worst enemies too much, but really just getting everything i can. Slowing down the AI's with war and a lot of tech trading is the only way i can keep up in tech. Even on emperor my tech rate isn't great - something i should work on.

To 1615 AD

Spoiler :

Here's tech after lib - took nationalism but lose taj by a couple turns to Roos.

Things are somewhat going according to plan. Everyone is at war except me. I got went for steel and traded for replaceable parts - a few AI's got rifling ahead of me, but cannons/knights/muskets/cossacks/rifles vs monty will work well - he's behind in tech quite a bit.

1555 and i'm ready to start my first war of the game. Everyone else is still at war so this will complete the world war we have going on. I love starting next to monty, makes the game so much easier.

His capital - between drafting/whipping/emancipation unhappiness/statue of zeus war weariness i have pretty much no population.

After killing a lot of units, and taking just those two cities i capitulate him. I'd like his land, but Roos just took a city and i'm afraid if i don't accept it now he'll capitulate to America.

Tech isn't completely hopeless. I had Roos at friendly but not anymore since i have a vassal.

Here's the new land. Justinian and Roos are fairly big/advanced. I think i could conquer Brennus, Zara and De Gaulle with infantry. I could switch to state property when i get communism and just go all out infantry/artillery basically to the end of the game. I'd fall behind the top two even more but whichever doesn't build the UN i could get to friendly and win diplo. Not sure if i could pull it off having monty as my vassal though. Maybe if i switch his religion/civics later? Probably still be a tough game to win - i played very fast and definitely could have done much better if i took my time. Problem was i wasn't planning on playing much of this - lost a couple offline immortal games and really was going to move back to emperor for a bit - heard this was a tough game too so i figured i'd just play a bit to see what the map was like, then look at spoilers. Next thing you know it's 1615 and i'm scrapping and somehow the game might be winnable. Playing the rest might be tough though - i really have started not to like playing out the 18th and 19th centuries much at all.

 

[Ai Shizuka]

Tempesta:

Spoiler :

I like your game a lot. I wish I had such luck with the AI wars. They still seem to be balanced, with no super-powers, so you can pick them at your own pace.
In my game Zara, DG and Roose are totally irrelevant while Justi and Bren have 15-20 cities and vassals.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

To ~ 75 AD. Made some RL progress so back to civ .

Immortal/Normal (barbs given back their archery...or rather I just used my base save so I didn't have to use WB).

Spoiler :

Settled in place. Went AH ----> BW ----> started writing, then decided on wheel ----> writing -----> pottery mid-way instead. Reasoning? Start next to NOT PROTECTIVE for a change, but a guy who would be troublesome possibly. I said screw all that and rolled the dice:

Fell into strike, had to disband some units. I STILL don't have mysticism (edit: nevermind, got it right around the 1000 BC mark)...! But, I DO have a lot of cities and room to double up. I need to do something about the zara religious hate before I get thrown down, but other than that cities + diplo/defense + cottage spam = eventually I win.

I don't have monarchy yet but nevertheless decent caps thanks to religion + resources, and once I get fur more resources. No wonder pushes here...probably just burn next scientist (first was settled in capitol so that I actually got to aesthetics in time to trade it...) on philosophy for trades and then live on cottage spam + build wealth or whatever is needed.

 

[Duckweed]

Deity/Normal To 250AD

Spoiler :

Although I am not even near a wonderwhore, I would still rate Ind as top tier trait. Not only because of getting wonder easier, but also you can build wonders for cash, this applies to national wonders.

So back to the game.

Tech:
Agri->AH->BW->Wheel->Mys->Archery->Fishing->Pottery->Writing->Aes->Lit->Drama->Music

Settler capital 1E. Riverside city is always favored
Capital:
Worker->War(part)->2nd Worker at pop2->Finish War->War->War->Settler->Archer->Worker->Settler...

1AD spot Monty's SOD, is heading toward Justinian's border

225AD With a few chops, get GL and Parthenon in the same turn

250AD Empire, settled 8 cities before 1AD, can cram in another city. 9 city empire early on is enough for any type victory.

250AD Tech, winning the Music race

With Marble in hand, (imo the #1 resource), Lib race is almost guaranteed. Although Jus is pretty strong, Monty is not weak, he already take one of Jus's city. With my aid in tech, I am sure he will give Jus enough trouble. So this map is a pretty easy one.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

IMM/Normal

1300 AD

Spoiler :

Lost lib, still went for it for trades and got it ~ 1120 AD so I was teching slowly but not worst ever.

Obviously with so many cities/room science picked up eventually. Brennus/de gaulle and zara are in a HATE fest, and I kept justinian @ pleased even switching to free religion.

I don't see a lot of easy ways to win and justinian's culture annoys me. He's not far along in it, however. I think if I micro manage some $$$ buy, I can use my 3 good cottage cities, 4 cathedrals (hindu, tao, buddhist, jewish) in each + sid's sushi and come out with a win. I can gift zara to friendly or so, and from there it's just him, justinian, and me really, and I will be immune to war.

But culture? On a 1 land mass map? I don't want to deal with just and his 30% world land/pop though so that's probably what I'll do.

 

[Shurdus]

@tmit

Spoiler :

Well done taking care of that psycho!

I have now long wondered about how to do a culture win when you have not aimed for it. I can hardly wait to see how it is done. Good luck!

 

[ungy]

normal to..940AD

Spoiler :

Monte settles towards Just, and i claim the copper/wheat/cow spot. Both Monte and Just found religions, and at this point I've also met Roo. I decide on the rush, which is pretty easy. Monte picks up IW a few turns before I attack but his iron is right at my border so he can only build jags which are fodder for my axes.
I give him a breather and take alpha, IW, poly, med.
At this point economy is of course crashed, but I get some $ from partially built wonders and get it sorted out. I build the Glib, and when I finish him off, Monte has way more units than I expect and I get some bad RNG so it takes a while.
Just had attacked Roo, and I will easily win Lib so at this point the game is a cakewalk.
Doubt I'll finish it.

 

[cas]

@ Duckweed

Spoiler :

My take on this game is that it was better to leave Monty as a buffer to Justinian which you did...and I did not. Do you ever pursue BC wars at this level or just expand to as many cities as you can fit and keep a higher tech rate...then go for medieval wars ? I'm having a difficult time knowing when it is best to peaceful REX in the BC's versus early war. I was concerned with a large border on Monty he would send a SOD my way...did you manipulate diplo to avoid this or just roll the dice ?

In my immortal/normal game (did not post a screenshot) I was able to take out Monty in 375BC but my economy crashed too hard. I might have been able to dig out...but Justinian already had 10 or 11 cities by 1AD and I was not going to be able to slow him down easily.

I'm also curious why you did not go for CoL earlier to get courthouses up.

cas

 

[Duckweed]

@ Duckweed

Spoiler :

My take on this game is that it was better to leave Monty as a buffer to Justinian which you did...and I did not. Do you ever pursue BC wars at this level or just expand to as many cities as you can fit and keep a higher tech rate...then go for medieval wars ? I'm having a difficult time knowing when it is best to peaceful REX in the BC's versus early war. I was concerned with a large border on Monty he would send a SOD my way...did you manipulate diplo to avoid this or just roll the dice ?

In my immortal/normal game (did not post a screenshot) I was able to take out Monty in 375BC but my economy crashed too hard. I might have been able to dig out...but Justinian already had 10 or 11 cities by 1AD and I was not going to be able to slow him down easily.

I'm also curious why you did not go for CoL earlier to get courthouses up.

cas

In general, I don't consider BC war in deity level as long as you can settle 4-5 decent cities peacefully. You just could not eliminate a deity AI by one strike except that you play Inca, Persia, and Egypt, and you can deny your opponent from metal in the beginning of the war. Otherwise, you will be dragged into a long-lasting war and crash your economy. However, in immortal, BC war is usually doable, since the war can be much shorter, so that you can start to recover your economy earlier. You don't need to completely take out Monty, you can stop in middle and ask for some techs and then continue to wipe him out.

With marble in sight, literature route is #1 choice, with GL and NE available early on, you are guaranteed to win the lib race, and you just don't have extra energy to go for CoL 1st, and usually you are able to trade for CoL in early AD since deity AI's teching really fast. Stalin is not Org but Ind, so MC is more useful. You can see that my cities are general small since I usually whip aggressively in this stage. Courthouse need 3-4 pop whip, so it is just not easy to build at that time.

Edit:
In this map, Monty can always find a better target than you due to the religious difference and border contact. He will have more border contact with Jus than you early on. Moreover, I convert to Monty's religion at the 1st time it spread and Monty is very friendly to spread his religion to all my cities.

 

[Tempesta13]

to ~ 1800 retire

Spoiler :

Had monty capitulated and went for the 3 weaker civs all the way over to the east. Got infantry and state property and was about to attack Brennus, who was the most backwards, when everyone declared on France. I opened borders with Brennus, moved my army 1 tile over, then declared next turn. France capitulated after i took their 3 eastern most cities, including paris. I was getting ready to attack brennus when Justinian, Roos, and Zara all declared on me - they were all pleased, but it was justinian who went wheoohrn so i knew it could be me. Probably better off anyway - i could have capitulated Brennus then Zara no problem, but wouldn't have enough votes to win UN since my vassals kept Justinian and Roos from actually being pleased/friendly. I was also falling way behind in tech from those two since i didn't make a single tech trade since before i capitulated monty. Roos was "friendly" with me but not really. So it was probably a hopeless game anyway so they put me out of my misery with that 1800 dow. Total game time was about 3 hours so i pretty much figured i wouldn't win this playing that fast, but i was just messing around since i didn't have time to have a proper go at it. Hopefully when the next IU is posted i can take my time and play it. Doesn't look good though - weekends are filling up quick.

 

[Crusher1]

1870 Domination! On a side note, I thought this game was very difficult! Some people seemed to make it look easy . The Bosch 1st Deity attempt game was 100X easier than this. Matter of fact, that Deity game was so easy I auto promoted units and had automated workers after 500 AD. This game here, sucked! Very hard =D.

 

[zizzeus]

Immortal/Epic to 10AD

Spoiler :

I opted to settle 1 SE, which turned out to be a much better position! I wasn't sure about losing that plains hill north of the original location, as it looked suspicious, but in the end it was a good move picking up iron and another FP, and leaving space for two filler cities later.

Tech path went AH-BW-Wheel-Agr-Myst-Pott-Writing-Fish-Aesth
Builds went worker-warrior-warrior-warrior-settler-settler-worker and the new cities built their own workers immediately.

Met everyone quickly, and settled somewhat aggressively towards Monty. I took the gold/cow/horses site with my second city, and the sheep/deer/wheat site with my third. Chariots for defense, and a fourth city before writing out at the fur/crab coastal site. This gives me a path to Justinian, some coast, and a monopoly on furs. 5th city went at the copper/fish/marble location north of Moscow. There's room for 2 more good cities, and one or two junk. I had high hopes for the copper/cow/stone site, and could have taken it with my third settler, but I was worried Monty would settle in between and I would have problems all through the BC's with him. A war with him would really slow down the tech path.



Not sure what's up with the barbs this game. Several times I moved my scout near bears, and the bears just went somewhere else. Not used to that on this level. Monty founded a city near my gold. What an assclown! On a hill too! That's gonna need some culture now.



I traded him some resources that I didn't need, just to get some trading bonus. Even still, he went to annoyed.





This is never good.



I made some trades after aesthetics. I was able to pick up IW, Alpha, Math, sailing, and a few religious techs on the path to literature and philosophy, but no one was willing to go to war. I was lazy in starting GP, since there is so much growth space due to our abundance of happiness. Traded furs for ivory as well.



Montezuma demands this, and I cave, seeing as how he's stockpiling troops at my weak border. Maybe he senses that I'm building the Statue of Zeus in our border city!



Too late, missed by three turns



He's WHEOOH again, with a stack at our border. I have several axes and spears there, with chariots standing by, but even still WTH? We're the only hindus together, he's pleased with me and not with anyone else, and still? WTH? This game won't be the walk in the park that the last one was.

Bad things:
too late generating a GP (due for a scientist in 5 turns)
have not taken advantage of the industrious trait
secured the marble, but forgot to tech masonry in time
do not have HE unlocked, or a good site for NE
am a part of a Hindu "block" of two civs, the other planning to invade me

Good Things:
will probably get the Great Library
have enough land for renaissance war
have not lost any troops
still have trading partners
moved settler to a better capital site

I was hoping to shoot through the lower half of the tree this game, but marble lends well to literature, even though there's not much food here. Will see how it plays out. Not good land for cottages OR enough food for specialists, so may have to take it from Monty and hope that I can catch some Buddhism soon. I am thinking elephant/cat whipped army. Later, cavalry of course.

Save:
View attachment zizzeus AD-0010.CivBeyondSwordSave

 

[Sleepless]

- 975BC Immortal/Normal

Spoiler :

I settled in place and tech path went AH, Wheel, BW, Myst with the plan to try and take some of Monte's cities early with Chariots. So with lots of chopping and my second city built between the horse/cow I attacked and managed to take 3 of Montes cities by 950BC including the cap. All I have to do now is recover my economy. Settle the rest of the land and should lead to an easy ish win hopefully.

 

[Ai Shizuka]

Retired in the early 900s:

Spoiler :

No way to take down Justi and his 17 cities. Got up to 0.7 power with mass rushbuy of tanks and bombers and captured a couple cities. Then a stack of 50ish modern units (mech inf, mobile artillery, some modern tanks) in his capital, defended by jet fighters. At the same time he was fighting vs Brennus AND building the spaceship.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Imm/Normal

To 1880 AD culture win

Spoiler :

I tech democracy, corp, and medicine, setting up religious buildings along the way:

Looks ok. Let's see if it's fast enough:

Just barely. With all his land Justinian teched pretty fast and would have won a couple turns after I did (gotta love how he launched the ship!). However culture does tend to be slightly faster than space even when you aim late. As you can see, just FS + cathedral spam will work. I'm actually not sure teching for sushi saved me time (it was just over 20 base culture but took a good bit of extra turns w/o culture slider), but it did allow me to set diplo with zara and make war impossible.

I was @ 100% culture until break even when the UN forced environmentalism. I thought about defying but I had enough reserve gold to finish, and some of my cities were starving health due to all the resource negotiations I had going.

Anyway, there's the late culture. With better MM it goes faster than seen here. This should be proof however that you can switch to culture late, and still win it just as fast as space if not faster as long as you get at least 3 religions one way or another (the only one that was mine was taoism).

 

[Learningciv]

Got a lot of work over next 4 days, looking foward to playing this one when I am done

 

[Sleepless]

- 1886AD

Spoiler :

I managed a space victory in 1886. With mine and Monte's lands I hoped to get a fast victory but failed dismally. Yet again at the end techs like fission/genetics were taking 3 turns to tech. The engine took 4 and 5 turns in my best 2 hammer cities. Probably the main delay was until about 600AD when I was running at 0% ish science. With the Mids and running plenty of rep scientists I was able to tech ok during this time though.

Thanks for running this TMIT. I wish you would put the huts on though.

 

[zizzeus]

Immortal/Epic to 1000AD
(what happened to the turnsets?)

Spoiler :

I waited far too long to grow a GP, and when he came Zara had already taken philosophy. I bulbed it anyway, since I needed some other stuff from trades. I was able to pick up MC, machinery, fuedalism, construction, currency, monarchy, calendar, and about 500 gold for philo and CoL. Montezuma has been WHEOOH forever. I think it's me. I teched HBR myself to start building elephants (Frenchy is providing the ivory) then CS-paper-education-lib.



Suddenly, diplomacy exploded. Brennus declared on religiously isolated zara, Roosevelt dogpiled Brennus, and DeGaulle dogpiled Zara. DeGaulle then came to me to join, and since Zara's on the other side of the map and has no friends, I'd be happy to get the +4 from DeGaulle, so I join. Justinian has me as his worst enemy, and he's WHEOOH too, so I drop into no state religion and start demanding stuff from Monty, trying to draw him into my borders. Instead, this happens:



Nothing could be better. I wait 3 turns then invade on two fronts.



I don't have much troopage, but I take Texcoco (a great city) and raze the city near my gold/horses/cow. Roosevelt makes peace with Brennus, who promptly declares on Zara as well.



Was starting to get worried about liberalism, and sure enough, Justinian beats me there. At least I can trade education around now. Picked up engineering, guilds, music, drama, and a bunch of gold.



Moving onto Monty's capital, he'll probably capitulate after I take it (in two turns). Defense left in Tenoch:



Tech:



My capital (gonna wait out the unhappiness and end the war shortly):

The save:
View attachment zizzeus AD-1000.CivBeyondSwordSave

 

[TheMeInTeam]

- 1886AD

Spoiler :

I managed a space victory in 1886. With mine and Monte's lands I hoped to get a fast victory but failed dismally. Yet again at the end techs like fission/genetics were taking 3 turns to tech. The engine took 4 and 5 turns in my best 2 hammer cities. Probably the main delay was until about 600AD when I was running at 0% ish science. With the Mids and running plenty of rep scientists I was able to tech ok during this time though.

Thanks for running this TMIT. I wish you would put the huts on though.

Spoiler :

Any trouble with the AIs launching the ship on you? I barely came out with a win on this one due to a relatively fast launch for BTS immortal. Congrats on the win...this is the second time we've been on the same map and opted for late culture and space respectively, with similar finish dates