Imperialism II PBEM

All the usual tricks have failed. I'm going to uninstall and reinstall both ToT and ToTPP after work. THEN I should be able to play.
 
Patine said:
All the usual tricks have failed. I'm going to uninstall and reinstall both ToT and ToTPP after work. THEN I should be able to play.
Click to expand...

It seems Windows, at some point, arbitrarily decided that ToT wasn't installed, even though all the files were still on the HD. I had to re-install the game and ToTPP right over the old install. I'll play and post this evening.
 
The Meiji Court maintains a dignified and respectful, but pragmatic and cautious public silence on the clash of the two vast Western Emperors for the time being.

With that weird Windows glitch smoothed over, this issue should not come up again.
 

Attachments

The British Empire is defeated and is firmly past redress.

I admit I feared as much at the very beginning of this war, but there seemed a narrow possibility that a judicious application of the considerable forces the British Empire had would buy the time for a new fleet of battleships to force a stalemate. Whether this was ever a rational possibility I will never know, for I failed to apply my forces at all judiciously. And of course, the French were well positioned to cause overwhelming losses, quickly eroding the bulk of my fighting capabilities.

It is a bitter end, but it is what it is. In some romantic idiocy I thought the game would evolve into something more grand, with colonial wars and more participants joining the theater. I knew at the start of the scenario that playing the British Empire would likely be a bit hollow experience, as simply using the overwhelming starting advantage to its full potential would be boring and unrealistic at best, and the other choice would be to hope some kind of forced story telling would weave threads together. I suppose investing an enormous amount of time in such a manner was bound to lead to some disappointment.

This concludes my participation in this game. Any time spent from hereon would only serve to very slightly increase French losses, and I don't really have the guts to sit down every few days to watch what I spent so much time doting over disappear for that alone.

Thank you all for your time.
 
I would agree that the number one thing these games need is a reason for minor little conflicts all over the globe instead of everyone building up an empire and then having it obliterated in a few turns in a massive war. I know @Prof. Garfield is interested in remaking Imperialism with lua to try and achieve this (and other things). I would like to take a stab at a Cold War conflict (another PBEM favorite) in the same regard.

I think those of us who remain should be frank about what we are seeking in a multiplayer scenario, what our common issues are, and we should combine forces to try and create some fairly quickly. Lua opens up considerably expanded possibilities and I do feel that it could be used to compel more minor conflicts and allow these games to be more "story telling" by need rather than forced desire.
 
I would like to find a way for the remaining players to continue this current game, even if that means handing France & Britain to the AI. I have put a lot of time & effort into this scenario and it would be nice to continue. Alternatively, we could try and find new players for a stripped back France and a patched-up British Empire.
 
France as AI might be fun... We could give it 100k extra and see if the big blue blob can be stopped.
 
Sure, we'll just pretend we are playing your average game of Europa Universalis.
 
But, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the AI, who is normally quite clumsy and anemic unaided to an experienced player (except with paratroopers and nukes, with whom they're ruthless, but neither, I believe, is relevant here) suddenly become emboldened and very aggressive and nasty if they suddenly start up with a lot of cities, production, and units? Or is this part of the scheme in mind?
 
A large AI versus three or four medium-sized human players will not fare so well in the long-run. I'm happy to play on with this setup. Would Britain be willing to fight to regain its lost territory (Northerner)? Perhaps Professor Garfield could be persuaded to take over the Independents? I still think we can have some fun with this scenario.
 
Or you could just slice off a large chunk of frances empire(including units) to the independents. I.E. French Civil war, or some major independence movement.(who controls italy?)
 
Although, I do admit, I wouldn't mind at all having a real shot at capturing Taiwan, Indochina, and the Canton/Haikou region without @Prof. Garfield wheeling back to crush me like a bug.
 
As the utterly defeated party, I feel that the victor should have more say as to how this could go on.

France is for all purposes unstoppable at this point. I must imagine the prospect of taking over the world would be mind bogglingly dull for Prof. Garfield, as the micromanagement would quickly reach untenable levels.

I do think that continuing with just slightly changed parameters would be somewhat disingenuous.

The scenario would have to be remade to a point, if that makes any sense.

One way would be to assume that the war between France and Britain was massively destructive on their homesoils - France did take a good chunk of sourthern England, and Britain made large scale invasions of France. France invaded Spain and Italy, too, which in a real world would could easily dissolve into something quite troublesome for France. Following the short but disastrous war the colonial empires would dissolve, and the nations would draw back from the world stage.

I suppose moving all French/British cities to the Independents, and installing some two nations as major powers would be possible. The two powers that come to mind are the Spanish Empire and the Ottomans. Italy comes to mind as a third possibility.

This of course approximates what Prof. Garfield had to say a few posts back. I agreed fully, but felt it more sincere to play the turns until it was absolutely clear Britain was beyond saving.

Simply leaving France to the AI as is would be no better than leaving Britain to the AI, as France now controls more cities than Britain.

Is this idea to radical, or is it something people could settle for?
 
Good game @Northerner . I think you were at a disadvantage, since you had more coastline, and with the current rules marines and warships are effectively siege units that can strike without "staging" or presenting themselves as vulnerable to counter attack if the assault fails.

I hereby resign control of the French. From my perspective, anyone can examine the French saved games. However, you may want to hold off on the last few months if the plan is to leave the French Empire intact as an AI rogue empire, or something. I'm willing to answer any questions about my choices/gameplay that anyone might have.

I'm willing to take over the independents, I won't be offended if that becomes impractical because territories have to be given to them to balance out the game. "Reset" the game however seems likely to give the other four powers the most enjoyable time. If there is a space for me to play in that new game, then I'm happy to play. If not, I don't mind quitting and being an observer.

This is my strategy/diplomacy, at least the way I remember it (I didn't look through old PMs or anything).

Early game, I was concerned about the possibility of war with Germany or Great Britain. For Great Britain, I was hoping I'd be able to avoid a war (even with some concessions) until after steel warships, since that tech essentially renders all older ships obsolete, so I wouldn't have to do a major naval buildup to be able to threaten British trade. This kind of conflicted with my desire to get closer to Russia, in order to have a counterweight against the Germans. The Russians seemed to be looking to France to be able to offer naval assistance against the British, but I didn't really want to commit to that kind of friendship/alliance, based on my strong desire to keep the peace with Great Britain. I figured I'd be friendly, and rely on the fact that Russia probably wouldn't want Germany to take over western Europe, even if France and Russia weren't full allies.

Regarding America, I was very keen to maintain trading rights throughout the whole game. Since America was sticking to its own hemisphere, all that really meant was not trying to colonize Latin America. This wasn't a huge burden, since for most of the game, there were colonies available in the old world. Until I established a railroad across Africa, I sent many ships across the Pacific Ocean and then over Panama, with the permission of the U.S. Until that point, the U.S. could have done me very serious harm through an embargo. At about that time, I had also established other options for trade. Australia and New Zealand (and the Falklands) were a substantial alternative, but I could have done domestic trading off the west coast of Africa also.

There was a point when Germany wanted to take over Milan (or was it all of Italy?). I asked the British if they would stand by their guarantee of independence, and said that if so, the French would support them up to and including armed conflict. If the British refused, I would have tried to make a deal with Germany to split up Italy and Spain. I figured that even if France and Germany got a comparable number of cities, French territory in Europe would move from ~1/5 the number of German cities to ~1/3, so my ability to resist German invasion would be improved.

At that point, France and Britain discussed what would happen if there was a German Russian alliance and we got into a war. At the time, it looked like such a war would be difficult to win, but that we could probably strangle enemy trade enough to win by eventually having superior technology.

Trade wise, my policy was to rush Iron Ore Mfg Goods every turn, where available. (Eventually, I ended up being rich enough to rush everything everywhere, but this was before that.) I figured that rushing an Mfg Goods from scratch was less than its delivery bonus, so I should get one every chance I got. Since most of these mines were in the Far East, that left the area with few troops and very important economically to the French Empire. When I used marines to capture Xiamen, and the Japanese (or was it Russians?) were nearby, I figured it was best to give back the city (we ended up signing a bit of a demarcation treaty), and hopefully make war less likely for a while.

As French power grew and German power didn't, I came to see Germany as a sort of buffer region between France and Russia. In the event of Russian invasion, I would have, at the very least, given Germany a lot of money to rush troops for the defence. I didn't attack Germany in part because I figured the Russians might have had a similar policy in mind, and in part because it didn't seem like "good manners" to push around a smaller player too much. There were times when I considered bullying Germany into allowing French troops to cross German territory in order to attack Russia. I don't remember if these musings were serious, or just thoughts about what could be done.

After I finished the mass railroad in Africa, I contacted Britain and Russia about getting permission to build a mass railroad to the Far East. If Britain agreed, I would have been willing to go to war with Russia to force the concession. I suppose that would have been a good limited conflict. The stakes would have been serious for Russia, but not existential. I figured Russia might refuse the Railroad, since it would speed up everyone's trade who used it, but Russia wasn't in that much of a position to use it. Ultimately, the Uganda Crisis happened instead. I briefly floated the notion of Britain and France allying against the world, but Northerner decided to provoke the Uganda Crisis instead, and I quickly saw that was probably for the best.

When Britain had a disagreement with Germany about some railroad in South Africa, I figured I could use that to as a means to protect my southern flank. So I offered some money (of which I had plenty) to Germany to build up the Boer territory defences. Eventually, this became a more general partnership, where I offered funds to be used even in Germany (which was to shortly join my war against Britain). I think this helped a lot, since having Germany on my side allowed me to have basically no troops defend the French/German border.

I think it was shortly before Christmas when I realized that I was in a good position for a general war against Britain, and that the window was likely to close in a few turns (at least as far as technology was concerned). I remember a turn where I thought it would be good to declare war, but I just didn't want to that turn. I originally built up the forces in Pondicherry "just in case" the crisis with Britain spilled over into a general war, so that the city could cause lots of casualties to the British. Eventually, I realized there was a decent chance to conquer part of India before the subcontinent could be mobilized for war.

I think that's about all of my thoughts about my Presidency of France.
 
Prof. Garfield said:
Good game @Northerner . I think you were at a disadvantage, since you had more coastline, and with the current rules marines and warships are effectively siege units that can strike without "staging" or presenting themselves as vulnerable to counter attack if the assault fails.

I hereby resign control of the French. From my perspective, anyone can examine the French saved games. However, you may want to hold off on the last few months if the plan is to leave the French Empire intact as an AI rogue empire, or something. I'm willing to answer any questions about my choices/gameplay that anyone might have.

I'm willing to take over the independents, I won't be offended if that becomes impractical because territories have to be given to them to balance out the game. "Reset" the game however seems likely to give the other four powers the most enjoyable time. If there is a space for me to play in that new game, then I'm happy to play. If not, I don't mind quitting and being an observer.

This is my strategy/diplomacy, at least the way I remember it (I didn't look through old PMs or anything).

Early game, I was concerned about the possibility of war with Germany or Great Britain. For Great Britain, I was hoping I'd be able to avoid a war (even with some concessions) until after steel warships, since that tech essentially renders all older ships obsolete, so I wouldn't have to do a major naval buildup to be able to threaten British trade. This kind of conflicted with my desire to get closer to Russia, in order to have a counterweight against the Germans. The Russians seemed to be looking to France to be able to offer naval assistance against the British, but I didn't really want to commit to that kind of friendship/alliance, based on my strong desire to keep the peace with Great Britain. I figured I'd be friendly, and rely on the fact that Russia probably wouldn't want Germany to take over western Europe, even if France and Russia weren't full allies.

Regarding America, I was very keen to maintain trading rights throughout the whole game. Since America was sticking to its own hemisphere, all that really meant was not trying to colonize Latin America. This wasn't a huge burden, since for most of the game, there were colonies available in the old world. Until I established a railroad across Africa, I sent many ships across the Pacific Ocean and then over Panama, with the permission of the U.S. Until that point, the U.S. could have done me very serious harm through an embargo. At about that time, I had also established other options for trade. Australia and New Zealand (and the Falklands) were a substantial alternative, but I could have done domestic trading off the west coast of Africa also.

There was a point when Germany wanted to take over Milan (or was it all of Italy?). I asked the British if they would stand by their guarantee of independence, and said that if so, the French would support them up to and including armed conflict. If the British refused, I would have tried to make a deal with Germany to split up Italy and Spain. I figured that even if France and Germany got a comparable number of cities, French territory in Europe would move from ~1/5 the number of German cities to ~1/3, so my ability to resist German invasion would be improved.

At that point, France and Britain discussed what would happen if there was a German Russian alliance and we got into a war. At the time, it looked like such a war would be difficult to win, but that we could probably strangle enemy trade enough to win by eventually having superior technology.

Trade wise, my policy was to rush Iron Ore Mfg Goods every turn, where available. (Eventually, I ended up being rich enough to rush everything everywhere, but this was before that.) I figured that rushing an Mfg Goods from scratch was less than its delivery bonus, so I should get one every chance I got. Since most of these mines were in the Far East, that left the area with few troops and very important economically to the French Empire. When I used marines to capture Xiamen, and the Japanese (or was it Russians?) were nearby, I figured it was best to give back the city (we ended up signing a bit of a demarcation treaty), and hopefully make war less likely for a while.

As French power grew and German power didn't, I came to see Germany as a sort of buffer region between France and Russia. In the event of Russian invasion, I would have, at the very least, given Germany a lot of money to rush troops for the defence. I didn't attack Germany in part because I figured the Russians might have had a similar policy in mind, and in part because it didn't seem like "good manners" to push around a smaller player too much. There were times when I considered bullying Germany into allowing French troops to cross German territory in order to attack Russia. I don't remember if these musings were serious, or just thoughts about what could be done.

After I finished the mass railroad in Africa, I contacted Britain and Russia about getting permission to build a mass railroad to the Far East. If Britain agreed, I would have been willing to go to war with Russia to force the concession. I suppose that would have been a good limited conflict. The stakes would have been serious for Russia, but not existential. I figured Russia might refuse the Railroad, since it would speed up everyone's trade who used it, but Russia wasn't in that much of a position to use it. Ultimately, the Uganda Crisis happened instead. I briefly floated the notion of Britain and France allying against the world, but Northerner decided to provoke the Uganda Crisis instead, and I quickly saw that was probably for the best.

When Britain had a disagreement with Germany about some railroad in South Africa, I figured I could use that to as a means to protect my southern flank. So I offered some money (of which I had plenty) to Germany to build up the Boer territory defences. Eventually, this became a more general partnership, where I offered funds to be used even in Germany (which was to shortly join my war against Britain). I think this helped a lot, since having Germany on my side allowed me to have basically no troops defend the French/German border.

I think it was shortly before Christmas when I realized that I was in a good position for a general war against Britain, and that the window was likely to close in a few turns (at least as far as technology was concerned). I remember a turn where I thought it would be good to declare war, but I just didn't want to that turn. I originally built up the forces in Pondicherry "just in case" the crisis with Britain spilled over into a general war, so that the city could cause lots of casualties to the British. Eventually, I realized there was a decent chance to conquer part of India before the subcontinent could be mobilized for war.

I think that's about all of my thoughts about my Presidency of France.
Click to expand...

I'm all for continuing, in general. Though I'm not sure which proposal I personally favour. Any more input here?
 
I'm happy for Garfield to take over the Independents with territories like Italy & Spain restored to them. Britain can take back its lost cities. We can hand over a large number of French overseas territories to the Barbarians and then someone else can take over a stripped back France. Perhaps we can bolster Germany and Japan somewhat so that all of the nations are closer in power. This plan would require another player to take over France. I think there is still a good game here. All we need to do is reset slightly.
 
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