Improved AI behaviour in 1.29f - no joke!!!!!

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

Usually, when you bombard an AI vessel, it will retreat right away to heal. I used this extensively to keep the AI from landing troops on my islands. Just bomb them, they go back and come again 5 turns later. Bomb them again - and again - and again......


Now, i found this doesn't work with 1.29, a seriously hurt transport covered by a seriously hurt Ironclad still landed the troops.

savgame:

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/1stturnend.zip

screenshots:

before:

after:

8 units come from the second transport, but four from the hurt one.


This is a significant improvement in AI behaviour - Firaxis!

 

[Sodak]

I see you modded your hit points!

It is ironic that this thread appeared right after your "I quit Civ3!" thread...

Anyway, I can't get 1.29 to work, I'll hafta just look and dream... Have you seen the AI doing anything else that can be called better tactics?

 

[JustListenen]

Originally posted by Sodak
I see you modded your hit points!

It is ironic that this thread appeared right after your "I quit Civ3!" thread...

Anyway, I can't get 1.29 to work, I'll hafta just look and dream... Have you seen the AI doing anything else that can be called better tactics?

Have you tried an uninstall, follwoed by a reinstall, then patching? Worth a try and the 1.29f patch is definitely worth the effort.

Off Topic - Where in Sodak are you? The lakes are up in the North East, the Paha Sapa in the South West, and the Paha Sapa river in the south central?

Spent may moons in the Home of the Coyotes (USD)

 

[Catt]

Originally posted by Lt. 'Killer' M.
Usually, when you bombard an AI vessel, it will retreat right away to heal. I used this extensively to keep the AI from landing troops on my islands. Just bomb them, they go back and come again 5 turns later. Bomb them again - and again - and again......


Now, i found this doesn't work with 1.29, a seriously hurt transport covered by a seriously hurt Ironclad still landed the troops.

[. . . .]

This is a significant improvement in AI behaviour - Firaxis!

I have seen this in my 1.29f games as well. And I agree, a minor tweak that is a major improvement in gameplay!

 

[sabo]

Sodak does "Land 'o Lakes" mean you're from MN?

 

[JustListenen]

Originally posted by sabo10
Sodak does "Land 'o Lakes" mean you're from MN?

I am sure SODAK would say "YES"

 

[Pygzilla]

I thought sodak was South Dakota. In Montana we called North Dakotans Nodaks.

Land o lakes is a margerine

 

[The Last Conformist]

YEAH!

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

another smart thing: they learned to sign expensive tech for gpt deals, then go to war.....

****ers!

 

[Sodak]

It seems the geography of my login has jacked this thread!

JustListenen, I've replied to your pm.

sabo10, I lived in Minneapolis for 12 years, am now in first ring suburbia...

Pygzilla, you're right - Nodaks and Sodaks!

 

[GI Josh]

other ai improvements:

(i) [gasp!] i've seen the ai use arty offensively - the ai put an infantry and arty piece on a mountain and started bombarding my troops. the arty bombardment wasn't tied into a general plan of attack or defense and it was only one arty piece, but it's still a *big* step forward.

(ii) the ai is now making useful numbers of knights/cavalry/tanks to attack, rather than using rifleman/infantry offensively. this is a also a *big* step forward.

i've played 3 games since the patch and i've seen both behaviors in all three games - monarch or emporer, standard map, 5-8 civs.

 

[Jon Shafer]

Soren said that there was no change in the AI's use of artillery, so whatever happened must already be within the AI somehow and we haven't noticed it before.

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

Trip: I'll check in the ediot right now what happeden to the offence/defence flags for the units, but I see this in a game using my mod, so there should be no changes there either.....

 

[JustListenen]

Originally posted by GI Josh
other ai improvements:

(ii) the ai is now making useful numbers of knights/cavalry/tanks to attack, rather than using rifleman/infantry offensively. this is a also a *big* step forward.

Yes, and its killing my 4 city (patch 1.29f) outpost (formerly 6 cities) on another continent! The Zulu, Japanese and Russian cavalry are breeding like rabbits!

Not only that, 4 Russian ironcladsand a Japanese destroyer just killed off my transport (with 8 tanks) and its guardian destroyer!

and now I have to worry about OFFENSIVE AI Artillery?

 

[Catt]

Originally posted by GI Josh
(ii) the ai is now making useful numbers of knights/cavalry/tanks to attack, rather than using rifleman/infantry offensively. this is a also a *big* step forward.

Originally posted by Trip
[BSoren said that there was no change in the AI's use of artillery, so whatever happened must already be within the AI somehow and we haven't noticed it before.
[/B]

I have seen regular instances of the arty fire you describe going all the way back to 1.17f. Not infrequently, during one of my offensives, the AI civ would take up defnsive positions in mountains just beyond my *new* border (i.e., his former territory). The AI might stack 2 or 3 arty protected by a pair of infantry and fire away at my units within range.

What I'd really like to see (others would as well I think ) is true offensive arty usage -- the AI invading with stacks of arty so that it can bombard city defenders before attempting to take a city. Haven't seen that yet, but would add challenge to the war aspect of the game.

 

[GI Josh]

Catt - interesting, this is the first i've seen of it. i agree, it would be good to see the ai using arty stacks for use on cities, and coordinating attacks by offensive units after arty fire on my defensive units. what i would most like to see is the use of "blitzkrieg" tactics by the ai. the ai always attacks in stacks of doom - post RR this is suicidal, and pre-RR i position my fastmovers such that i can usu. blunt the attack fairly easily. the ai needs to be able to lauch a blitzkrieg, i.e. use the 3-move cavalry to surprise attack my lightly defended city that is only two moves from his border. now that sort of behavior would drastically force changes in my behavior.

 

[Catt]

Originally posted by GI Josh
Catt - interesting, this is the first i've seen of it. i agree, it would be good to see the ai using arty stacks for use on cities, and coordinating attacks by offensive units after arty fire on my defensive units. what i would most like to see is the use of "blitzkrieg" tactics by the ai. the ai always attacks in stacks of doom - post RR this is suicidal, and pre-RR i position my fastmovers such that i can usu. blunt the attack fairly easily. the ai needs to be able to lauch a blitzkrieg, i.e. use the 3-move cavalry to surprise attack my lightly defended city that is only two moves from his border. now that sort of behavior would drastically force changes in my behavior.

Well, potentially good news for you then! I've only finished one game in 1.29f; near finishing my second. It seems to me that I am seeing a lot more of this under 1.29f -- and I agree with you, this is an improvement as it makes city defense a bit more intricate.

BTW, I think that if I am really seeing more (as opposed to just a fluke after only <2 games) it has to do with the fact that the AI has been altered to build more "pure attack" units (knights / cavs / tanks) rather than any change in AI warfare tactics -- i.e., with more cavs and tanks, we will be less likely to see stacks of doom consisting of 75+ infantry / riflemen / longbowmen, and more likely to see the AI with a bunch of restless and 3-move capable cavalry -- which, as you point out, is a very good thing .

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

Catt: good point there on the offensive toops number. Perhaps the AI governor is set to Often for offensive units now....!

back to tzhe first post: I now see transposts waiting for new escorts when the old ones aren't survivable anymore.... inside my waters doh! I killed one with three Galleys I had left over

 

[pompeynunn]

Over on the Apolyton chat log, Soren said that there had been a bug with the upgrade flags on defensive units (didn't understand the bug personally), but the result was that there were far more AI defensive units wandering around than offensive units. This has now been fixed, so we should see more offensive units used by the AI now - not sure if artillery will be included in that, and can explain the apparent increase in use that some people have claimed. (I haven't upgraded to the new patch yet - in the middle of a cracking large map game, and don't want to risk screwing it up).

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

Originally posted by pompeynunn
Over on the Apolyton chat log, Soren said that there had been a bug with the upgrade flags on defensive units (didn't understand the bug personally), but the result was that there were far more AI defensive units wandering around than offensive units. This has now been fixed, so we should see more offensive units used by the AI now - not sure if artillery will be included in that, and can explain the apparent increase in use that some people have claimed. (I haven't upgraded to the new patch yet - in the middle of a cracking large map game, and don't want to risk screwing it up).

aaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!


If the AI didn't upgrade properly - which it didn't, then it would have to build more defensive units to reach an adequate number of top-notch defenders..... thus, less room for offensive troops.......