Improvement Questions

[Japes]

I am pretty new to Civ games , but I am really hooked now. I have just begun to win near 50% of my Warlord games and would like to improve my style more before moving up.

I wonder about how others build there cities improvements. Right now I just put ALL improvements in every city as I am able to. Is this ok? Am I wasting money or being frivilous?

I have begun to change my science rate at the begining of the game to get some cash flow and I try to buy techs until I can catch up to the AI. What improvements could I possibly not put in EVERY town? I notice that my maintenance is the highest expense on my list most times and I am thinking that I may be shooting myself in the foot.

I have trouble after awhile keeping my science at even 50% because of all my expenses. My army is another story. I think is could be bigger , cause I always get bullied by the AI but I just cant afford it most times.

What percentage should be Maintenance and what should be unit costs for the army?

Sorry to start a new thread if this is discussed somewhere but I honestly have searched and searched for in depth city management articles and cant seem to find and CFC is huge.

War academy is great but there arent really any details about city placement or details on making tax men or scientists or anything like that.
EDIT
I also wanted to ask about playing on acellerated production.
Is this considered cheating or anything? Are my scores not as valid as someone on regular speed?
I just like to get to the meat of the game before its over in 2050.

 

[Yzman]

I would say you do not need barracks in every city. Also do not build happiness improvements in cities that do not need them. If a city is only size six, it will probably only need a temple and maybe a cathedral if you have a good amount of luxuries. Marketplaces are one thing you should always build whenever you can. Dont build city walls at all. Thats all I can think of now but others might say more.

 

[Mathias]

At the beginning of the game, set science to max. At warlord, you should be able to outpace the AI in tech and do some decent trading. Don't build any unnecessary city impovements before you can afford to pay for them. Marketplaces are not needed until you have at least 3 luxuries, and then only in larger cities. With science set as high as possible, there won't be much taxes for the marketplace to increase. Don't build any colosseums, they are only needed in larger cities when you are in a republic (or a democracy, but by then, you should have everything built). Build temples in you core cities, and libraries in all cities. Never build walls, and only build barracks in cities that are going to build most of your military.

I might not be the one to ask about how big your army should be, but under despotism 50% more than "allowed units" might be a good size for your army.

As for AP, play as you like. However, if you can play on a higher level, the game will prgress faster.

 

[Bamspeedy]

Marketplaces you should almost always build. It's nice to have them already built so once you do get 3 or more luxuries you can get an instant benefit from them. It also increases income, which will do wonders for your capital and other low corrupt/high income cities. Walls and coastal fortress I never build. Sure, they don't cost upkeep (mainanence), but they are wasted turns of production. If your city gets to size 7+ the walls are useless anyways. Don't bother with colleseums unless the city gets large enough that it really needs it and can support it. Your capital (and probably some other cities near your capital) won't need a courthouse until much later in the game. I never build courthouses in my capital and nearby cities until I actually see it losing shields or it has nothing left to build and I can easily afford the upkeep.

You really need to pay attention to how much uncorrupted gold the city is producing. Some cities that are only producing less than 5 uncorrupted gold won't really benefit from libraries, universities, etc. because the upkeep of the building costs more than what it is helping. Cathedrals may not be needed in the smaller cities. Many culture buildings may not be needed unless you really need to add culture to your civ and you can afford the upkeep. You'll still want to put at least a temple in every city, though. Build on rivers whenever possible, so you don't have to build (and pay upkeep) for an aqueduct.

Trade for luxuries. Luxuries will do wonders for your economy.

 

[DaveMcW]

Build a barracks in one city very early on, and produce nothing but military there. Your other cities don't need any barracks until they are ready to build military.

Use military police to keep cities happy up to size 6. My build order is temple, marketplace, library, aqueduct, cathedral, university.

 

[Reagan]

With due respect to the previous posters, I try to avoid making "I always . . ." or "One should never . . ." statements. That's like trying to play poker by a set formula -- it just doesn't work. As in poker, the texture of the game, the level you are playing, etc., will go a long way towards determining the appropriate strategy. There are times when walls are appropriate (a captured city near enemy lines, where you starve the city to 1 to avoid flips but can't get additional workers/settlers there to add pop). Unless you want the culture benefit, there is also often no need to build libraries and universities in the first 50-60% (or further) of a Deity game because research will be set at 0% and/or you will be using a lone scientist to research a few techs (like Nationalism). If your army is lacking, perhaps the production spent on the walls you build in that size 9 city or the library you build in a 0% science game could have been better spent on military units. Just some things to think about . . . .

 

[DaveMcW]

When I play deity, ALL my cities build a barracks early on and produce nothing but military. But I don't think deity players need much help on improvements...

 

[Bamspeedy]

Well Reagan, saying stuff like "Don't build this" or "build this" is more valuable than just saying "it depends on the situation". "It depends" doesn't really help a new player out unless he knows exactly what variables must be taken into account. Yes, there is always exceptions to any rules, but sometimes that would require too long of a post if we would post all the possible exceptions. I use 'never' and 'always' when it applies to more than 95% of the time. In a 0% science deity game, yes, the library gets put on the back burner until later (depends on situation). But I will want it eventually because when the industrial age hits I'll be researching myself (and getting a tech lead), so I'll need the extra science output. And you'll really want the culture on deity.

Walls-20 shields, spearman 20 shields. I'll take the spearman anyday. But I rarely need any defense units anyways. Build nothing but offensive units and you'll keep the AI reeling back, unable to mount an offensive against you.

 

[cavemanf16]

It's true, there's not a lot of good info on CFC about city management and how that effects the way you'll end up playing the game.

For the newbie who started this thread, it's important to know the Civ you're playing. A lot of CFC players like to play as the Persians, Egyptians, etc. So if you're playing a Civ that is Religious and Militaristic, it'll benefit you most to focus on Religious and Militaristic improvements like building Temples, Cathedrals, Barracks, etc. I'm no expert at Civ3 (I so far have stuck to Regent as I find that the most enjoyable for my play style), but it does make a difference as to the Civ you're playing. I usually like to play as a Scientific/Industrious Civ. That means I focus on growing and researching. My build order looks something like this early on in *most* cities (but not all cities depending on how well the city can produce): Warrior -> Warrior -> Settler (or Worker, again, depending on how fast the city can produce - the slower it's production rate, the more inclined I am to build a worker first before a settler) -> Library -> Warrior -> Settler -> Temple -> Barracks -> Spearman -> etc.

Recently I have been expirementing with skipping the Barracks until the middle ages or so, so as to produce some more early military units to project a little more strength and keep the enemies from attacking my weakly defended cities. Later on in the game (middle ages to Industrial age) I build brand new cities (or recently captured border cities) like this: Walls -> Barracks -> Library -> Temple -> then I build all sorts of different things from there. My reasoning for this is 1) you're not founding many new cities (if any) in the middle game, so no need to build settlers, and 2) usually you've got other cities producing attack and/or defensive units to fortify in that newly founded or captured city.

But remember, that build order is because of how I choose to play Civ3. I like to build and expand and take control of other Civs in the late stages of the game. I also play with Scientific and Industrious Civ's. Just remember, build for the Civ you're playing with, otherwise you're not taking advantage of the Civ's special abilities.

One last tip: I prefer to crank the Science rate to 10 in the beginning because under Despotism, until you've got 50% of your dozen or so cities to size 6 or larger, you're not going to experience much unrest, nor much need for the few extra gold pieces you'll get from your unproductive early cities. The benefits to 10 GPT versus 16 turns to research tech's is a big one early in the game if you play like me.

 

[zagnut]

Here is a recent post from Moonsinger that I thought was great advice on how to start the game:

"Regent, Monarch, Emperor, or Deity, the starting method is really the same for all levels.

1. Start your first city at 4000BC and tell it to build 2 warriors. If you don't have Pottery, research it now and set your science slider to 100%. You will discover Pottery within 22 turns or less (22 turns at Deity level, much less at lower level).

2. After building the first 2 warriors, set it to build a great wonder, barracks, temple, or whatever that takes the longest time to build. Note: we just want to store the shields at this point. Once we discover Pottery, we will immediately switch it to build a granary. In the mean time, road and irrigate the food bonus tiles within the city. After the granary is built, set it to continuously produce settlers. That's it. We now have a settler production structure in place.

3. Find a good spot to build your second city (make sure it get good shield production and not too far from your palace) and immediately build a barracks. After the barracks is done, set this cities to continuously produce military units. That's it. We now have a war production structure in place.

4. Depend on your playing style, do what you will with the rest of your cities. You could build more settler production city or more military production city or even great wonders (culture production city)."

 

[Japes]

Wow I am really far off the track it seems.

I don't see how you can put science to 100% and still be able to build anything since as soon as I get negative gold my stuff gets sold or my units disbanded.

I would build a million military right off the bat if I could afford it, the thing I don't see here is how can I even afford the Granery or barracks , not to mention any military at all with 100% science.

Something is missing in this equation that I am not getting. I just played the last GOTM and got trounced because I couldnt afford anything , the game even sold my barracks off when I went into deficit.

What am I missing here?

PS
Thanks for all the replies this is good stuff.

 

[Phantom Lord]

I guess you're simply missing that as long you don't have a first building (usually granary, barracks or even temple) you don't have any expenses and can put all your ressources into science.

Once you have a building, it costs money and you can't afford 100% science anymore, unless you manage to live from raiding barbarian villages.

Never tried that strict "settler structure" -> "military structure" thing so far, but it sounds good. Usually I try to have to have a second or third city with better production than my capital to be able to switch between wonders and palace in my strongest producing city.

 

[MajorFallout]

About Granaries:
One thing I've noticed, is that you ONLY need Granaries in cities that either are going to be creating alot of Settlers and some workers, or that city is having trouble creating extra population.

The first improvements I build (in order of priority) are:
a) Barracks
b) Library
c) Courthouse
d) Temple
e) Marketplace

 

[Yndy]

There are a lot of improvements that you do not need or you may live without.

There are two types of cities that you may have - the core cities that have production over 4 shields and commerce over 8 shields without any improvements and the 'corrupted cities which have 1 shield production and 1 commerce production.
There is a small category in between of semi-corrupted cities that is a little special.

In the core cities you should build at some point in time (sooner rather than later) barracks, temple, courthouse, marketplace, library, cathedral, university, bank, factory, plant, research lab.

Aqueducts, hospitals, harbors, Mass transit, Recycling centers are dependant of the situation but do not build them unless they are needed (I assume you all know what they do).

Other buildings can be built in the core cities if you really feel the need of a wall or a SAM battery but are most of the time a useless use of resources.

The corrupted cities do not need buildings for the good of your empire! You can build a temple for border expansion, an aqueduct, hospital or harbor for growth and a marketplace for happiness. These all can help you gain more points in your game but represent a burden for your finances.

The semi-corrupted cities need a courthouse in the first place. Then they need a marketplace and maybe a library. You might consider building aqueducts and hospitals there but not banks or universities. Temples and cathedrals are also not recommended. These cities can benefit also from the Police Station and after this one you may be able to build a factory within 20 turns and get use of the cities production.

An important thing is to remember to sell the improvements in the cities you conquer from the AI. They do not bring any benefits as those cities most of the time fall in the “corrupted” category and cost you a lot of money.

A rule of thumb to see if a city has too many improvements is to check the F1 screen to compare the city income and the city maintenance at 30-50% money on the slider. If the income is higher than it’s OK. If maintenance is higher than you should stop building there and consider selling some buildings.

Edit: Granaries are a kind of building that does a lot of good but most of the time is not worth the time to build.

 

[JMK]

First goal when you began a game is EXPENSION, you need to build settlers and WORKERS (at least one worker per city at the begining of the game). Also, you need to meet other Civs, so you have to build some warriors.
I would suggest to build a barracks in your second or third city for military units.
Then if you decide to build a great wonder (pyramid for instance, should not be too difficult at warlord level), I would first build a temple for city expension and happiness.
As Zagnut already wrote, research potery then build:
Warrior-Warrior-Warrior (need 3 on large map) then go for granary and settlers / workers.
Second city can build first a barracks and military units.
Note: under despotism four units per city are free, then it will cost you 1 GPT per unit, so you have to be sure that you have enough cities to support both your workers and military units. Beside that all improvement will cost you 1GPT.
An early war could be very beneficial as it could bring you a great leader to build your Forbidden Palace.
Very optional improvements are: colosseums (if you are not planning for culture), wall, SAM battery.

Also take the time to read this Strategy Article from Cracker
Improving your Opening Play Sequences.

Good Luck.

 

[Bamspeedy]

I see only one person (I think) answered your edited questions about accelerated production.

Accelerated production does change the game quite a bit. Yes, score and other things about it, should not be compared equally to a game that does not use it. With accelerated production you will grow, produce, and research nearly twice as fast, so your score would probably be double (or at least much higher). Worker tasks are not doubled, so you may have trouble with commerce, because you can't lay down roads fast enough to keep up with population growth and to help pay for the buildings and military you are building.

It's not cheating if you are playing the game for fun, and it is an option that the game gives you. But you can't compare the progress to a game that doesn't use it (and you can't use accelerated production for the Hall of Fame, here on civfanatics). With accelerated production you may get to the industrial age by 10 A.D.. Without using it, you won't (well, you might, but it would require a very high difficulty level, and lots of AI opponents for a very fast tech pace).

Build order also depends on your civ trait and what your goals are. On warlord, you should be doing most of the research, so a library before temple is probably better. But on higher levels where you aren't researching, you should build the temple before the library. It also depends if you are religious or scientific (which buildings are cheaper).

Workers-You want alot of them. 1 worker/city if you are industrious. More if you are not industrious. Not having enough workers is a common mistake for new players. Depending on how much room you have to expand, you will probably need to build some workers during the expansion phase. But once the expansion phase is over, your first goal should be to get at least 1 worker assigned/city.

Granaries are great in your settler/worker factories. You can complete it faster in your capital and nearby cities, but in those 1-2 shield cities you wouldn't want to spend 30-60 turns building a granary. I usually build 1 or 2 granaries, then aim to capture the Pyramids (give masonry to your neighbor ASAP). On warlord, I would just build the pyramids myself and build only 1 (or 0) granaries.

 

[Scyphax]

I have either a temple or library in every city.

I like to extend my cultural borders as far as possible even if I am in a warlike mood.

One of the BIGGEST advantages of wide cultural borders is that your units get the movement advantages of roads and railroads when barbarians and enemy civs do not.

Your city workers also get a bigger choice of squares to work.