Improving Science Research in the Early Game

[mardukes]

Originally posted by ElephantU


Agreed: Lack of a list of cities' Food Box status is up there with lack of #BeakersAccumulated statistic in my pet peeves. You find out by hitting F1 and clicking each city in turn. Its a good thing to do anyway at the end of your turn just to make sure you are not suprised by any unhappy citizens, unwanted production, or unanticipated city growth. Especially when playing Deity level...

Maybe this should be a new thread, but can we fix these things? What are the nature of the "mods" I see in the download area? Can a skilled programmer interface to the program to modify or replace to build an alternative to the cities list? That is, did Microprose give us connections that are not just hacking? You know, legitimate calls (api's) into the running program?

Does it really matter?

 

[SlowThinker]

Originally posted by mardukes
That is, did Microprose give us connections that are not just hacking? You know, legitimate calls (api's) into the running program?

Microprose let many bugs and oddities in the code and no entrance to the program.

See the CivManager of Xin Yu: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=76140
Unfortunately I cannot find a thread with a download...

 

[Ace]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by ElephantU


Agreed: Lack of a list of cities' Food Box status is up there with lack of #BeakersAccumulated statistic in my pet peeves. You find out by hitting F1 and clicking each city in turn. Its a good thing to do anyway at the end of your turn just to make sure you are not suprised by any unhappy citizens, unwanted production, or unanticipated city growth. Especially when playing Deity level...

A faster way to cycle through your cities is to open the city screen on the nearest city (I always start at the capital) and after reviewing that city, use the up or down arrows to go to the next city and repeat until you are back at your starting point. You can use F4 to narrow your review if your in a hurry. The attitude key will let you skip cities that have one or more happy people and are not in danger of disorder. But, to get the most out of your cities you really need to check each city each turn.

The way to tell when a city is going to "grow" is to check the food box. When the surplus food available will fill the box on the next turn, you know the city will grow next turn. This is when and where you can adjust your workers if you don't want the city to grow just yet, ie. temple is not finished.

 

[SlowThinker]

Originally posted by Ace
The way to tell when a city is going to "grow" is to check the food box. When the surplus food available will fill the box on the next turn, you know the city will grow next turn.

I think this is false. The city will grow next turn if the food box is full already.
It is different from shield production.

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

Originally posted by SlowThinker

I think this is false. The city will grow next turn if the food box is full already.
It is different from shield production.

You are correct, slowthinker. Once your box is completely full, you will add a citizen the next turn (and your food surplus will be added to your box). Also, one thing I noticed just recently: Once your food box is already full, its too late to rush a granary...you'll empty the foodbox as the new citizen is created, THEN build the granary.

 

[Ace]

"I think this is false. The city will grow next turn if the food box is full already.
It is different from shield production."

Actually, the city will grow next turn if the food box is already full, but this only occurs if you use a food caravan/freight to fill up the food box, otherwise, it works just like the shield box. A simple way to verify this is to watch a city carefully. Note when the food box will be filled by the next turn's surplus food, check the number of citizens, then finish the turn. when you check the city next turn, the food box will be empty (assuming no granary) and the city will have one more citizen.

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

Originally posted by Ace
"I think this is false. The city will grow next turn if the food box is full already.
It is different from shield production."

Actually, the city will grow next turn if the food box is already full, but this only occurs if you use a food caravan/freight to fill up the food box, otherwise, it works just like the shield box. A simple way to verify this is to watch a city carefully. Note when the food box will be filled by the next turn's surplus food, check the number of citizens, then finish the turn. when you check the city next turn, the food box will be empty (assuming no granary) and the city will have one more citizen.

Sorry, but I am pretty sure you've got this wrong. I've watched it many times in my GOTM25 game since the beginning of the month. The city fills the box completely on one turn (and excess is wasted). The city remains the same size and your food box shows as completely full. Then your city adds a citizen the next turn with the food surplus you are running already in the food box. I also think that once you get the box full, you can even run a food deficit that turn and the city will still grow (I haven't tried this recently, but I recall it being a problem when I had forgotten a sewer once and tried to starve the city back so the food box would not be lost) - Thus the FCT is taking advantage of something that's already built into the game mechanism, not something unique to caravan delivery.

 

[SlowThinker]

Ace, I disagree again. Maybe you have Mac?

Another useful trick: when your food box is full you can have famine and the city will grow anyway.

Edit: Sorry Tim, i didn't read your post.

 

[ElephantU]

If the food box is not full, but the next turns surplus will fill (or overfill it), the number of citizens is NOT increased until the food box is filled next turn. Any more food than is necessary to fill the box is ignored. The box will fill next turn, and the NEXT turn you get another citizen.

example:
1 citizen
food box holds 20 sheafs
Turn 7: 18 sheafs in box (food surplus +3)
Turn 8: 20 sheafs in box (full, extra sheaf ignored)
Turn 9: 2nd citizen added (increased production,Trade,Food)

 

[Ace]

Your right. Just ran several tests and it does give you another citizen on the following turn.

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

From what I remember, it works how Elephant U et al are saying;

If you need 5 food to fill the box and you generate 6 extra food, then it will fill up, but the extra citizen will not be added until the next turn.

Tim is also correct that once the box is full , it is too late to rush a granary. IIRC, The game checks each city in a particular order. It seems food growth happens first, then tax generation, then production, or something like that....

 

[SlowThinker]

Originally posted by Duke of Marlbrough
IIRC, The game checks each city in a particular order. It seems food growth happens first, then tax generation, then production, or something like that....

Yes. See this thread (and notice me about wrong parts if you can): http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=49202

 

[funxus]

The weird thing is sometimes the computer will pick an unroaded grassland shield over a roaded grassland shield, no irrigation on either of them.

That's what I meant. Usually they start to work the ocean, when there's a harbor, but when there's a few unworked ocean-squares left, they start working unirrigated and unshielded grassland, with or without road, giving me 1 or 3 arrows less.