In Defense of Endiku Warrior

[troytheface]

I kind of touched upon this in another thread, but i thought i'd throw it out as a new thread for those that have voiced complaint about the ol Endiku Warrior as a UU choice.
Myth is usually based in fact. The idea of a 'wild man" in the Sumarian past is probably based on fighters that the then nomadic tribe had that fought using tactics found in the natural world. (ie, like the myth of Kung Fu being started by a monk that lived in a cave and learned different styles of fighting from the wild animals about) Which is to say, that these warriors faded from memory and into myth. Since the game starts pre-city...it could follow that the sumarians had these kind of warriors to start with. Someone mentioned in an old post that having this uu is like giving America Superman as a uu (lol) but i think there is a subtle difference here, and the Endiku warrior as reality turned to myth , is a world apart from a comic book creation made for profit.

 

[Louis XXIV]

I don't think the Sumerians ever had a Endiku Warrior. I got the impression that Firaxis didn't really even try to think of a creative explanation for them, because it was made up. They could have said something like:

The Sumerians gave rise to many inventions for war. In addition to a primitive Chariot, they invented the Phalanx (a formation of massed spearmen that fight together, instead of individually). The elite of these were the Enkidu Warrors. Moddled after the lengendary Enkidu, a Wild Man who, after originally fighting Gilgamesh, became friends and had many adventures together. He was known for his ferocious fighting. The Enkidu Warriors tried to imitate this ferocity in their fighting as well.

Or something like that, you get the idea.

 

[troytheface]

what your suggesting has no base in reality or record...what i am contending is that there was some kind of warrior wild man/men that was/were transformed into myth- (but ur right, just as made up an explaination-but that is the premise-reality turned to myth) which is to say -Jason and the argonauts- myth-chances are tho -there was a Jason- ect. I appreciate the alternative tho, hell anything is better than a bunch or Hercules's running about

edit-reread ur post and i get what ur saying better now-however i guess the diffrence is i am making a leap that there were endiku warriors as oppossed to modeling there troops on the idea

 

[Xen]

you cant compare Enkidu warriors to Jason and his crew, as there 300 odd argonuats running around with Jason, and a good deal of these were heors (like Heracles- latin hercules-, and the father of Achilles and so on...)

but in my opinion, the SUmerian UU could have been much better served by havin a chariot, or spearman replacement of the warrior, making a truelly unique graphic wise unit

 

[troytheface]

i'll agree with u on this one ol xen u cata whatever maniac-
but i used jason as an example of reality-turned to myth-not as
individuals- hell, now i am getting confused...But i think an early phanx or chariot would have been fine, a 2/2/1 spear or a transport chariot
-trying to rectify this warrior uu in my own mind more than anything

 

[Louis XXIV]

I think the stats are fine, the only thing I don't like is the name.

But I've started to think of Enkidu Warriors as simply the Sumerian's primitive Spearmen (although looking at the screenshot, it looks like they could only kill anything by hitting them on the head. Maybe they should add I point to the end of that stick, it works better ).

Just thinking of them as the first Spearman (fighting in a Phalanx, of course) has made me except the Enkidu Warrior. I look forward to destroying them on my way to wiping out the Sumerians

 

[troytheface]

that makes sense to me- maybe the early phalanx guys had a cult of Endiku attempting to personify that they were just as good of fighters or something.

 

[Sarevok]

that sounds pretty easy to believe.

 

[Loaf Warden]

But is there any record of this? I admit it's possible, but everyone's just speculating that it 'might' have happened. Even the official description in the preview didn't sound very convinced.

"The enkidu warrior is named for Enkidu, a near-savage man created by the Sumerian god Anu to accompany and aid Gilgamesh on his quest for immortality. Enkidu was a fierce warrior and prophet, and the Sumerian armies strove to emulate his ferocity in battle and his iron loyalty to the king."

I'm sure Sumerian soldiers did take inspiration from stories about Enkidu, but did they relate themselves directly to him? Did they ever actually use his name? Or could Firaxis just not find any units that would be uniquely Sumerian, and were forced to draw from mythology in order to let the Sumerians get in?

 

[troytheface]

Yes, they found an inscribed stone yesterday in the euphrates that read -
"And in the future , with lighted glass and plastic keys-mankind will remember the Enkidu warriors thru their gaming ways-that we of Sumaria had an elite phalanx unit called Ekindu's. And that village over there near the great water owes us 20 camels and a few handmaidens, preferably brunettes"

 

[Xen]

personally, I think any one taking insperation from Enkidu is a tard

after all, it is the epic of GILGAMESH- he is the hero, and the role model for all the young Sumerian boys, not his disformed sidekick- who do we idealize today- Hercules, or his nephew, and sidekick for a short while, Iolaus

 

[Xen]

sorry, buddy, but its MODERN association is anything bad, I was trying to be light hearted about it, but hey, if someone wnats to nit pick, and try to undermine my argumens by attaxking my terminology, then go ahead- and let the mods deal with you however they may.

as for seeing things in black and white- well, considering that wea re talking about a people that havant been self ruling for the last several thousand years, there is only the wrong theory, and the rigth theory- sure, perhaps there were a few, but it makes no sense what so ever to think that it was his partner, and not Giligamesh himself who was the hearty, lusty champion who inspired a people.

 

[troytheface]

i deleted my own post there xen, ..u must have caught it tho...
work with some ol learning disabled so i think i got a bit touchy,
i know where ur coming from

 

[DisplacedCajun]

I thought the guy/creature's name was Esau or Esua who was a man beast came from the east and ravaged the Sumarian country side. Gilgamesh being a warrior king went and fought this man-beast for x number of days and nights until they both understood that neither one could win. From then on out the two were drinking buds and such. But I do not ever remember a cult forming from this. I agree 1)I think Firaxis was streatching a bit on the UU on this one. 2) A lot of the myth is based on real events 6000+ years ago. But is this UU worth the Sumarians losing the ablity to build spearmen?

 

[warpstorm]

Originally posted by DisplacedCajun
But is this UU worth the Sumarians losing the ablity to build spearmen?

Why would you want to build Spearmen if you can build the Enkidu? According to the GameSpot preview the stats are the same as a spearman and it is half the price.

 

[sealman]

Originally posted by Xen
personally, I think any one taking insperation from Enkidu is a tard

after all, it is the epic of GILGAMESH- he is the hero, and the role model for all the young Sumerian boys, not his disformed sidekick- who do we idealize today- Hercules, or his nephew, and sidekick for a short while, Iolaus

IOLAUS of course

 

[Roundman]

Originally posted by troytheface
Someone mentioned in an old post that having this uu is like giving America Superman as a uu

I wish that America had Superman for a UU, with an Attack of 98, a Defense of 99, and unlimited movement. He could cost 2000 shields to build, and would be limited to one at a time. That would be awesome

 

[Roundman]

Originally posted by warpstorm

Why would you want to build Spearmen if you can build the Enkidu? According to the GameSpot preview the stats are the same as a spearman and it is half the price.

One reason is because building Enkidus instead of Spearmen breaks up the upgrade path. When Pikemen are availiable you will have to build new Pikemen instead of upgrading the Enkidus (which I suppose will upgrade to swordsmen).

 

[warpstorm]

Originally posted by Xen
after all, it is the epic of GILGAMESH- he is the hero, and the role model for all the young Sumerian boys, not his disformed sidekick

Have you ever read the epic of Gilgamesh?

He was the king and very powerful (can you say oppressive despot?), but unlike Enkidu who faced death like a man, Gilgamesh was a real ***** about it and after Enkidu's death he devoted the rest of his life to trying to scam immortality because he was too afraid of dying. Some heroic role model.

Enkidu was not deformed, just a savage raised by the wild animals (think Tarzan and Shamhat).

In fact, the tablets go so far as say that he was created by the gods to free the people of Uruk from the injustices and oppression of Gilgamesh.

(This is the most common version, there are other tellings which do portray him as more heroic and even as a lesser god)

 

[warpstorm]

Originally posted by Roundman


One reason is because building Enkidus instead of Spearmen breaks up the upgrade path. When Pikemen are availiable you will have to build new Pikemen instead of upgrading the Enkidus (which I suppose will upgrade to swordsmen).

Well, as the article doesn't mention the upgrade path, you could be be right.