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Inca

Discussion in 'Leader Balance' started by Damirith, May 13, 2015.

  1. Funak

    Funak Chieftain

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    I do find it kinda funny that you're just disregarding the major benefit of their UA :D.

    Yeah mountain-crossing and settling and whatnot is pretty situational, hill-movement isn't really. I'd still rate the Incan UA above the Iroquois or the Songhai one.
     
  2. Stangle Khan

    Stangle Khan Chieftain

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    Iroquois yes, Songhai no. Automatically having amphibious units (that are also stronger when embarked) is great for attacking from the ocean plus being one less promotion you have to take. Also, the AI builds almost all of it's cities on rivers or coast. Being able to move faster along rivers is also great for moving units long distances. Add that to getting the early gold from settling another city on the same river (though not always possible) and the triple gold from barb camps can really help early game. I usually get enough gold to buy a worker or two. Couple that with Authority and Songhai can go berserk. Not to mention Songhai has a top-tier UB.

    Sorry for the off-topic rant... Songhai is probably my favorite CBP civ. :lol:

    I was mostly saying that the double hill movement is really the only majorly useful part of the UA. All the other parts are so situational since it's rare to have more than a few mountains in one place if you aren't playing on Highlands or a pre-made map of a mountainous area.
     
  3. Gothic_Empire

    Gothic_Empire AKA, Ramen Empire

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    That's a bit like saying that Polynesia is punished whenever they do not have access to natural wonders immediately. As usual, you are presenting an incredibly myopic view of this game. You also have openly insulted me in the last two or three interactions we've had, so... *shrug* I'm giving your posts as much time as they've earned.
     
  4. Dawnbringer

    Dawnbringer Chieftain

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    I honestly think the Inca is very strong at the moment on Pangaea maps since I've been getting a lot of chain mountain starts (where there's like 8-16 tiles of mountains splitting a place up, and I settle near it). I've played them 5 times so far, each getting a pretty good start (unfortunately, the games do crash), and it honestly is pretty overwhelming at the start, especially if you get Goddess of Nature pantheon (nearly guarantees first religion if you settle multiple cities near the mountain chains).

    And once they reach astrology, the observatories get a lot of science going, and the mountains are a great innate defensive barrier. Also, having the ability to get logistics early on and then upgrading your units (you will have the gold if you have mountain chains to support it). But if you play other map types, I can see how you don't really get favourable terrain and the UA goes downhill. But yea...the pangaea map bias is pretty good for inca overall.
     
  5. Funak

    Funak Chieftain

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    I'm still not really a fan of how the mountain-yields work, I mean sometimes (or most times in my case, mountains just aren't chained, they have like one tile between them or so.
     
  6. Dawnbringer

    Dawnbringer Chieftain

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    Yea, I just had a roll that had no mountains around me (but plenty of hills), it was quite suboptimal or rather bland. But it was just a standard start from that point and I found mountains nearby to settle around. It worked out in the end, just a little slower than usual without the 6 yield tiles early on.
     
  7. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    I can't say much about their power, but just now trying out the Incas, they are fun as hell!!

    Cool ranged unit that gets massive promotions is awesome. The mountain climb is neat, double hill makes exploration fast! And a unique terraform that presents its own challenges.

    I'm really liking how they play.
     
  8. gleng91

    gleng91 Chieftain

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    In my first game of CPP (so take this with a grain of salt), I think I have to agree the UA feels a bit too strong.

    With a standard Pangea map, I started near an enormous clump of mountains (enough for 6 cities settled on mountains without many overlapping tiles). The UA allowed founding cities in somewhat ridiculous locations (like on a mountain surrounded by two rings of mountains). AIs can't found cities in such mountainous places, and that is a huge advantage in itself.

    The other advantage is of course that massive 'for every 2 mountains' yields from the Pantheon belief (and lesser extent observatory).

    The sea of +3G/+3F tiles in the mountain clump seemed odd, as uniformity like this is rare for other terrains (due to forests, bonus yields etc.). Also why are mountains such food powerhouses, shouldn't they be more hill-like and grant production?

    Regardless of the above, the UA mountain-walking and settling was extremely fun. I would suggest only minor tweaks to yields and perhaps the Pantheon belief.

    I like the idea of making mountains better where terrace farms are worse.

    My idea would be:
    "Mountain tiles produce +2P, +1F/+1G for every two adjacent non-mountain tiles and +1P for every two adjacent mountain tiles".

    e.g. tile next to:
    0 mountains: mountain 3F/3G/2P (amazing), terrace farm bonus n/a
    1 mountain: mountain 2F/2G/2P (bad), terrace farm bonus +1F (bad)
    2 mountains: mountain 2F/2G/3P (good), terrace farm bonus +2F (ok)
    3 mountains: mountain 1F/1G/3P (bad), terrace farm bonus +3F (good)
    4 mountains: mountain 1F/1G/4P (good), terrace farm bonus +4F (amazing)
    5 mountains: mountain 4P (bad), terrace farm bonus +5F (amazing)
    6 mountains: mountain 5P (ok), terrace farm bonus +6F (amazing)

    Other miscellaneous comments:
    1. I was surprised my enemy could use my mountain roads to invade me (I deliberately routed my roads on mountains tiles where I could). Lesson learned for next time, as I guess it makes some sense.
    2. It felt weird to have double movement on mountains - it would make more sense to have double movement on hills and single movement on mountains (i.e. mountains are the new hills).
     
  9. Funak

    Funak Chieftain

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    I personally have always dislike how the current UA favors mountain-ranges simply because of how random mountain generation seems to be. Even when I get a lot of mountains close enough to expand to them (which happens really rarely actually), there is usually one non-mountain (and usually non-hill, or hill with a resource on, because the universe hates me) between every mountain, leaving extremely weak one-mountain tiles littering the area.
     
  10. Gothic_Empire

    Gothic_Empire AKA, Ramen Empire

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    I really like that terrace farms shunt food down to regular farms. I managed an 11 food wheat tile a game or so back.
     
  11. Gothic_Empire

    Gothic_Empire AKA, Ramen Empire

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    I just tried Polynesia, and loved how their UI could be built on any tile regardless of resource.

    Hint. Hint. Hint.
     
  12. tu_79

    tu_79 Warlord

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    I wouldn't say coastal tiles are just 'any' tile. And it's quite difficult to get adjacency bonus. And on top of that, moais don't connect strategic or luxuries (this is the same for terrace farms, I think).
     
  13. Gothic_Empire

    Gothic_Empire AKA, Ramen Empire

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    I meant "any coastal tile" and said "any time." My bad.

    I just want the Inca to be able to completely ignore the existence of, say, sheep, and put a terrace farm down. Last time I played them they definitely could not do this.
     
  14. Funak

    Funak Chieftain

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    I really don't like improvements ignoring resources. I still think the Maoi should be changed to adjust to that and I certainly don't think moving in that direction with the Terrace-farm is a good idea.
     
  15. Gothic_Empire

    Gothic_Empire AKA, Ramen Empire

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    I think UIs should straight up improve resources, but I'd take ignoring them, just because I'd prefer to be able to use my UI more often regardless of what civ I am than to have yet another pasture / mine / etc.
     
  16. Greggy08

    Greggy08 Chieftain

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    I also would like to have every UI ignore resources , Or At least bonus ones .
     
  17. matlajs

    matlajs Chieftain

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    i suggest give to terrace farm +1F at least for every 2 adjacent basic farms.in most of cases, it will lead just to that +1F bcoz in most cases you can fit max 3 farms to one terrace. this or maybe give it some culture on some later tech.i think would be fair to it. how funak mented in improvement thread, its worth work terraces till some era, after that just few remain worth, rest are just farm boosters.
     
  18. Gothic_Empire

    Gothic_Empire AKA, Ramen Empire

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    I am going to sum up the conversation about los incas in the patch thread:



    As you can see, this sheep has created a salt resource.
     
  19. Funak

    Funak Chieftain

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    I actually had that exact same situation in my last game, although I wasn't playing as Inca so I couldn't improve the tile either way.
     
  20. tu_79

    tu_79 Warlord

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    Good sum up! Is this happening to you in every city all the time, in some cities every game or just some cities sometimes?

    The balancing thing is not in that you can use your uniques when you like, but that it gives you enough push up to stay competitive.
     

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