Inca

[Workerspam]

I played a game as Inca yesterday using the latest patch (3-7) and I also experienced the trade route issue for cities built on mountains. I had four cities, three (including my capital) built on mountains. I could not send trade routes from any of the three on mountains, and the one non-mountain city could only send trade routes to foreign cities. I even had a road connection from my capital to another mountain city. I'll start another Inca game with only the core mods activated; if I can recreate the issue I'll post on Github.

 

[tuska]

Playing on the latest version, my cities on mountains don't seem to receive/generate religious pressure. I kinda went around it by using ingame editor to spawn missionaries after x turns.

 

[Funak]

Playing on the latest version, my cities on mountains don't seem to receive/generate religious pressure. I kinda went around it by using ingame editor to spawn missionaries after x turns.

They seem to suffer from a lot of problems like that. I don't think you can properly send trade-routes from them either.

 

[tuska]

Yeah just noticed that too. What are the durations of trade routes on different speeds? I could just keep the trade routes inactive and then hurry prod for a building after x turns.

 

[Workerspam]

Ilteroi posted on Github that he was able to recreate and fix the trade route bug which also apparently caused the religious pressure issues. Looking forward to the next update of the mod which should include the fix.

 

[Owlbebach]

Sounds great. Inca is very nice to play, gameplay is quite unique

 

[kawyua]

Is there any way to allow melee units attack units on mountains? Its been like this for a while now, but I still find inca to be too strong in the player's hands. Setting up archers on mountains become xp farms and trivializes combat. Of course, they aren't strong enough to win wars just with that, since it takes a long time to kill enemies, but surely there is a problem here?

Among other powerful bonuses that makes Inca so great, mountains seems quite dangerous as an advantage over the ai. People who have played inca will note that the ai does retreat even while units are on mountains, but all it takes is some troops in the open to lure them back in.

I don't have any perfect solutions to this, but what about the being damaged when on mountains mechanic except for inca? Did that do anything bad for pathfinding?

In any case, inca has enough strengths that if the abiility to go into mountains for combat troops was removed, it'll be perfectly fine. Of course if its possible to leave the citizens abilities to go on mountains, it would be great, but I do think this idea of fighting on mountains may be more bothersome than necessary to warrant a magical fix.

Inca is by far my go to pick when I want to play a deity game, partly because I'm impatient and partly because there are too many base requirements to do anything in a deity game! I wish cities have the ability to take some of the global resources, so they wouldn't be so unhappy all the time! =(

 

[CrazyG]

My issue with Inca is that cities founded on top of mountains have crazy yields

 

[kawyua]

My issue with Inca is that cities founded on top of mountains have crazy yields

The yields themselves aren't much, but the fact that cities only count their needs that they have makes every little bit of base yield so vital

I really hope there is a less costly way for civs to fill the needs of cities because it is so hard to get civs other than inca to get cities that aren't building structures, all day long. Religion does in some way fix this, but only for a select few. Its a drag when I have to wait for some kind of late game be able to expand and attack

Having near 0 unhappiness for each city is just way to valuable.

 

[CrazyG]

The yields themselves aren't much, but the fact that cities only count their needs that they have makes every little bit of base yield so vital

I really hope there is a less costly way for civs to fill the needs of cities because it is so hard to get civs other than inca to get cities that aren't building structures, all day long. Religion does in some way fix this, but only for a select few. Its a drag when I have to wait for some kind of late game be able to expand and attack

Having near 0 unhappiness for each city is just way to valuable.

Different cities have different base yields depending on their terrain. A hill gets 2 food, 2 hammers, non-freshwater flatland gets 2 food, 1 hammer, 1 gold, and freshwater flatland gets 3 food 1 hammer. These are good values IMO. Mountains have a base of 2 food, 3 hammers, and 1 gold, I just don't see why a mountain gets such a better base than other terrain. As Inca you get the gold/faith/science with era as well. I can accept that as part of the UA, but I would like to see mountains get the same base yields as a hill

That extra gold is potentially worth -1 unhappiness from poverty, but in general those aren't doing too much for your happiness. What they are doing is giving a really amazing early game start that snowballs big time, which Inca doesn't really need since all his uniques are really good.

 

[Gazebo]

Different cities have different base yields depending on their terrain. A hill gets 2 food, 2 hammers, non-freshwater flatland gets 2 food, 1 hammer, 1 gold, and freshwater flatland gets 3 food 1 hammer. These are good values IMO. Mountains have a base of 2 food, 3 hammers, and 1 gold, I just don't see why a mountain gets such a better base than other terrain. As Inca you get the gold/faith/science with era as well. I can accept that as part of the UA, but I would like to see mountains get the same base yields as a hill

That extra gold is potentially worth -1 unhappiness from poverty, but in general those aren't doing too much for your happiness. What they are doing is giving a really amazing early game start that snowballs big time, which Inca doesn't really need since all his uniques are really good.

Mountains should have same base yield as hills - post to github for me pls.

 

[CrazyG]

Mountains should have same base yield as hills - post to github for me pls.

The ticket is open (thanks kawyua)

Let me ask, is Inca getting the faith/science and gold from the UA on mountains something we have to leave in play? Like codewise would that be a pain to change, because its really strong and I really don't like it. It just feels gimmicky and the Inca would be plenty strong even without it.

 

[Gazebo]

The ticket is open (thanks kawyua)

Let me ask, is Inca getting the faith/science and gold from the UA on mountains something we have to leave in play? Like codewise would that be a pain to change, because its really strong and I really don't like it. It just feels gimmicky and the Inca would be plenty strong even without it.

It can be changed. But without it the Inca don't have the best use of mountains.

 

[CrazyG]

It can be changed. But without it the Inca don't have the best use of mountains.

Sorry I wasn't clear, could they keep the yields on mountains, but it not apply to a city on a mountain? Because currently you get the science/faith/2 gold starting as part of the cities yields which is really powerful. If you can found the first few cities on mountains its comparable to having an extra pantheon (like God of Wisdom)

 

[Gazebo]

Sorry I wasn't clear, could they keep the yields on mountains, but it not apply to a city on a mountain? Because currently you get the science/faith/2 gold starting as part of the cities yields which is really powerful. If you can found the first few cities on mountains its comparable to having an extra pantheon (like God of Wisdom)

MM, gotcha. I mean, yeah, but it does hurt a bit (in that you are penalized for settling on mountains by losing the yield).

G

 

[kawyua]

MM, gotcha. I mean, yeah, but it does hurt a bit (in that you are penalized for settling on mountains by losing the yield).

G

Not convinced that it is needed?

The question of civ power level is hard to sum especially when having to compare with every single other civ. My bad, I guess these kinds of suggestions warrant gameplay to demonstrate in detail. Games are so long! Especially with all the new war changes, it is definitely hard to say what is "overpowered" for sure.

 

[Zanteogo]

In any case, inca has enough strengths that if the abiility to go into mountains for combat troops was removed, it'll be perfectly fine. Of course if its possible to leave the citizens abilities to go on mountains, it would be great, but I do think this idea of fighting on mountains may be more bothersome than necessary to warrant a magical fix.

Mountains are generally rare enough that I never found it a big deal. Yes it's quite powerful, but depend on luck with the terrain generator. If you remove the mountain movement they would be pretty bland.

 

[kawyua]

Mountains are generally rare enough that I never found it a big deal. Yes it's quite powerful, but depend on luck with the terrain generator. If you remove the mountain movement they would be pretty bland.

Like if another civ settles near a mountain that little terrain can be the difference between convincingly winning a war against a civ or having an attrition match. Early in the game of course.

The fact that melee units can't attack units on mountains are a big deal because units on mountains still have zone of control. Then, you can keep luring in enemies while they waste their movement. This is especially especially important when enemies like horseman show up. All that damage and space adds up. Inca's slingers are strong enough to absolutely cripple a neighboring civ if not eliminate with a rogue mountain around to play the enemies with. Ugh I can't explain without some long write up because there are a lot of strong things out there, but the mountain is a matter of abusing the ai - its dangerous.

The aspect of rarity doesn't matter when having one mountain to be able to kill enemies around is enough. When something can make or break killing enemy armies easily there's a problem here in comparison to all the other civs that have to care. I guess this doesn't have much validity as there hardly seems to be any deity writeups around with all these new changes. (Especially domination!) =(

 

[ElliotS]

Like if another civ settles near a mountain that little terrain can be the difference between convincingly winning a war against a civ or having an attrition match. Early in the game of course.

The fact that melee units can't attack units on mountains are a big deal because units on mountains still have zone of control. Then, you can keep luring in enemies while they waste their movement. This is especially especially important when enemies like horseman show up. All that damage and space adds up. Inca's slingers are strong enough to absolutely cripple a neighboring civ if not eliminate with a rogue mountain around to play the enemies with. Ugh I can't explain without some long write up because there are a lot of strong things out there, but the mountain is a matter of abusing the ai - its dangerous.

The aspect of rarity doesn't matter when having one mountain to be able to kill enemies around is enough. When something can make or break killing enemy armies easily there's a problem here in comparison to all the other civs that have to care. I guess this doesn't have much validity as there hardly seems to be any deity writeups around with all these new changes. (Especially domination!) =(

Just post a bunch of screenshots with you crushing on Deity with Inca. I did that to Denmark and they were nerfed in a week. xD

 

[randomnub]

Damn you, I got tricked into an Inca game and got punished A nice collection of bugs or just annoying features imho:

- Units on mountains cannot heal

- I am not able to build Baths on a riverside mountain city

- Building a road over a mountain allows for enemies to use them (without the trailblazer promotions either)

- Having logistics prevents you from taking splash damage and coup-de-grace; tbh I probably read that somewhere on the board but I forgot about it and all my slingers with barrage were a bit sad. There's no documentation about it in game. I am not sure I like the UU (and its upgrades) forcing you into the accuracy promotion path, the alternatives (cover, infiltrators, indirect fire) not fitting the 'sit on your own mountains' strategy very much.

Slingers-upgraded composites keep both logistic and withdraw btw, I figured they'd lose the latter.

- Last but not least, I rage quit a very nice looking game after losing the race to Machu Picchu for my 10 mountains town, because 'not enough policies' after I converted half the map to my Apostolic Tradition religion (looks like the 1/8 cities policy lessen requirements doesn't work ) but that's another story.


I had a strong start with Goddess of Nature unlocked at turn 21, then first religion on turn 74: I wait medioeval before spread so went for early enhancer, manage to hold a two-fronts war and conquered some japanese cities (and sold back Casablanca for some great GPT, then Ahmed became my bff), aka a fine game so far. The new founders look a bit meh with scaling yelds so I tried AT (lapis lazuli monopoly and tradition for some fat golden age) and before realizing the buggy behaviour I was quite amused by it. At turn 135 my capital is pop 23, after a very production heavy start, and catched up/surpassed all deity AI capitals despite a quite weak +66 food surplus (during WLTK) thanks to spreads (last missionary use net +358 food/GAP). Still, working mountains in the expos is not a great option because the terraces aren't providing enough food surplus, but that's probably an issue with my map and tradition start.