Inca

[Atlas627]

Perhaps, but you do run into the issue of 'dayum' becoming 'utterly OP' in some situations. Sure, that can happen with other UIs as well, but I think more thought needs to go into this. For now, I'm going to do adjacency for terrace farms simply as a 'band-aid' while we consider our options.

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Okeydokey, I'll give it a try. I'll also try to think of some other ideas.

Personally I don't think the Terrace Farm is underpowered currently, so I think that "dayum" is overpowered. But if it is underpowered currently, then perhaps its perfect!

How about specific lake adjacency instead? I know it can be done because of the Polder, and lake+mountain will very rarely happen, but it still gives some flexibility and power without it being boring.

 

[Funak]

I don't think adjacency for terrace-farms is going to be of much use honestly. Massive hill-formations are pretty damn rare and the biggest use of terrace hills, building them on a line by a mountain isn't really going to be affected at all.
Well you did call it a band-aid, so I think you understand that, but lets try and think of a permanent solution.


One idea would be dropping them 'per mountain' bonus and instead having a lot better base-yields and a single 'if adjacent to a mountain' bonus making it stronger

 

[Atlas627]

I don't think adjacency for terrace-farms is going to be of much use honestly. Massive hill-formations are pretty damn rare and the biggest use of terrace hills, building them on a line by a mountain isn't really going to be affected at all.
Well you did call it a band-aid, so I think you understand that, but lets try and think of a permanent solution.


One idea would be dropping them 'per mountain' bonus and instead having a lot better base-yields and a single 'if adjacent to a mountain' bonus making it stronger

That's a possible solution, though I like that you want to find those spaces in a mountain range for a single mighty tile. I suppose trying to find as many hills as possible bordering at least 1 mountain would still be fun, but I think it'd be less. Need to play it to find out how much less and if its worth it.

 

[Llednar Twem]

Since farms and terrace farms can't be made to influence each-other, adjacency alone is definitely just a band-aid. My main issue with the UI is how it currently actively clashes with farmland rather than synergizing with it like I really feel it should. Incidentally I feel polders have the same problem but worse since their terrain requirement directly competes with farmland in a lot of cases, but that's a debate for another time.

Hm...what if we built onto the "tiered" theme with terrace farms by having them extend some of their mountain bonus to adjacent normal farms? For example a terrace farm next to two mountains would give +1f to adjacent farms. Would that be impossible to code? It probably is, but it was an idea I had that I thought could be interesting. It would encourage a tiered layout of mountain to terrace farm to farm, which I feel somewhat fits thematically.

Edit: Actually that probably isn't enough of a bonus, since it requires two adjacent mountains to actually start doing anything at all. I didn't want to suggest extending their full mountain bonus to adjacent farms though out of fear that it would grow out of hand and become overpowered rather than underpowered. Maybe...terrace farms touching a mountain give +1f to adjacent farms, with another +1f if touching three or more mountains? That's probably even more impossible to code than my first suggestion, but it keeps single-mountain terrace farms from being useless without making +2f easy to stack.

 

[iwiws]

Recently, I played a game with the Incas.
I got to settle a city on hills near mountains, and terrace farms were good there. I found out one thing, though (even if that's obvious) : when there are mountains adjacent to the terrace farm, they're in or near the city radius.

I think the terrace adjacency should help with food, but the mountain adjacency could help with culture, because there will be "useless" tiles in the city radius.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Would it be possible to increase the Mountain adjacency to 2 tiles radius? It would keep the same flavor but increase potency in most cases.

 

[Atlas627]

Would it be possible to increase the Mountain adjacency to 2 tiles radius? It would keep the same flavor but increase potency in most cases.

That seems ludicrously op. There are 6 tiles in the first ring and 12 in the second, which makes this a change from 6 to 18 tiles checked.

 

[Llednar Twem]

Wow, my last post was really convoluted. I guess that's what happens when you try to come up with ideas at one in the morning. I still think the core idea of tiered farm layout has merit, but a much simpler system would just be "terrace farms receive +1f per adjacent mountain and provide +1f to adjacent farms" You'd still end up with something that looks kind of like a terraced system. Mountains ringed with terrace farms ringed with normal farms.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

That seems ludicrously op. There are 6 tiles in the first ring and 12 in the second, which makes this a change from 6 to 18 tiles checked.

However, if a city has that many mountain tiles around it, it would need a pretty hefty food yield on its few terraces.

Realistically, it would probably about double the "mountain-food" yield because you're mostly like not going to have more than about 4 or 5 mountains within 2 tiles of the Terrace without it being a crappy city spot.

 

[Atlas627]

However, if a city has that many mountain tiles around it, it would need a pretty hefty food yield on its few terraces.

Realistically, it would probably about double the "mountain-food" yield because you're mostly like not going to have more than about 4 or 5 mountains within 2 tiles of the Terrace without it being a crappy city spot.

I still think double the current food is overwhelmingly OP. I'm not saying that only the best-case scenario is op, and I agree that may not even be the best-case scenario.

 

[Funak]

One idea would be dropping them 'per mountain' bonus and instead having a lot better base-yields and a single 'if adjacent to a mountain' bonus making it stronger

Any thoughts on this? Generally make the improvement stand on its own as a somewhat stronger farm without mountains and then if it is adjacent to at least a mountain it becomes a lot stronger.


The idea is to keep the 'most case scenario' terrace farm strong enough without making the 'optimal placement' terrace farm way too strong.

 

[Llednar Twem]

I don't know...that would make isolated mountains far more desirable than actual mountain ranges, which directly contradicts how the UA wants continuous mountain ranges for city connections. The idea could certainly work, but it just seems rather opposed to the theme of the civ. On the other hand, my idea of a thematic solution didn't generate any response either, so I'm probably not really one to talk.

 

[Funak]

I don't know...that would make isolated mountains far more desirable than actual mountain ranges, which directly contradicts how the UA wants continuous mountain ranges for city connections. The idea could certainly work, but it just seems rather opposed to the theme of the civ. On the other hand, my idea of a thematic solution didn't generate any response either, so I'm probably not really one to talk.

Mountain-ranges on non-highland maps aren't really that common, that's one of the problems the civ faces.

I think the problem with your idea is that it is impossible programmingwise

 

[void_genesis]

I may be wrong but I thought it was continuous hills for city connections, not mountains. If the communitas map scripts can be tweaked to give a few more isolated mountains then a bonus on mountain tiles for adjacent terrace farms could be quite fun to play. Mountain chains would still be somewhat useful as well, and thick blocks of mountains the least usable.

I'm curious to think how this all leads back to a strategic theme for the inca. Hill movement should synergise with mountain based yields, but should the yields be extra food? They had good agriculture in difficult terrain, but should that lead to rapid growth of population and large city sizes? Would a culture or other yield from mountains via terrace farms be more useful?

 

[Funak]

I may be wrong but I thought it was continuous hills for city connections, not mountains. If the communitas map scripts can be tweaked to give a few more isolated mountains then a bonus on mountain tiles for adjacent terrace farms could be quite fun to play. Mountain chains would still be somewhat useful as well, and thick blocks of mountains the least usable.

City-connections are from mountains.

I don't really think adjusting one custom-map would count as balancing a civ

 

[Llednar Twem]

I think the problem with your idea is that it is impossible programmingwise

Really? The simplified version I posted earlier today seemed fairly straightforward:

Terrace farms receive +1f from each adjacent mountain and provide +1f to each adjacent farm

The new second effect would just invert the existing first effect and apply it to farms instead of mountains. Does something about how that would have to be programmed really make it difficult / impossible to code? Like I said before, I really know nothing about programming.

 

[Funak]

Really?

Probably.

 

[Llednar Twem]

Huh, that seems odd to me, but then there's a reason I failed the one programming class I ever tried. I've long since come to terms with my complete inability to actually understand how to code things. I'm to tired to try and come up with an alternate suggestion now though. Maybe tomorrow.

 

[Funak]

Huh, that seems odd to me, but then there's a reason I failed the one programming class I ever tried. I've long since come to terms with my complete inability to actually understand how to code things. I'm to tired to try and come up with an alternate suggestion now though. Maybe tomorrow.

Hey, I don't know, but it sounds about as complicated to me as every farm and every terrace farm checking adjacency with each-other, so it is probably impossible .
I've given up on assuming anything would ever be easy or even possible when it comes to programming, now I just act like I don't understand anything instead.

 

[Tubbilicious]

Last time I played as the Inca, I remember each Terrace farm generating one culture? It was a couple of months ago, so there may have been some other modifier causing it I suppose.

Instead of boosting the food the terrace farm generates, why add an additional yield, like 1 tourism or 1 science per farm.

If that's not enough of a boost, you could add to the +1 food / adjacent mountain +1 other yield per adjacent mountain, be it science, culture, tourism, gold, or whatever. This would further boost each individual super tile, but presumably be rare enough to not be over powered. How often, for instance, do we see a readily workable, in range hill surrounded by 4/5 mountains?

Again, instead of adjacent mountain tiles causing this stacking buff, you could go with adjacent terrace farms causing this buff. I'm guess both of these options would be straightforward enough to code?