Incense and Reagents

Sarisin

Deity
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May 15, 2006
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NJ
I feel like I should write about that Strawberry Alarm Clock song...sorry, most of you are too young to remember.

I used to have a devil of a time getting metals, mithril, gems, etc., but now it seems if I build a lot of mines I can usually get 'gifts' in those mines later.

Now, I really think it is hard to get Incense and Reagents in many of my games. Civs don't want to trade it and it is scarce on the maps I play. I really like to get Incense in my resource box so I get the Priests/Inquisitors/High Priest thing going. Yes, I know you can do it with other resources depending on your civ, but I usually need Incense for my religion.

I don't think I have to explain the importance of having Reagents for your magicians.

So, how about a few ideas on how to get more Incense and Reagents into the game? Here are mine:

1. Add more to the map. A huge map only seems to have 3-4 of each. I think adding more would make the game more interesting.

2. Give one or the other in existing Wonders. In Yggrasil, for example, why not give Incense. A FOL civ will have Hidden Paths to build it and needs Incense. Give Reagents with Catacombs Libralus or one of the other magic Wonders.

3. Have new Wonders that might give you Incense or Reagents.

4. Just like a mine suddenly pops you with Gold, or Copper, have a farm suddenly turn into a Reagents Plantation. Surprise stuff like that in the game is fun!

I know some may say to go take it via conquest from another civ. Even so, I have often been so far away from either resource it just wouldn't make sense.

I think adding more of these resources to the game would make it more interesting.
 
They do not seem too crucial for me. But isnt that so in each game a different number of each of the resources is generated? I am currently in a game with significant lack of iron. Actually I will have to wage war to gain access to iron.
 
I always found reagents and incense too scarce as well. Maybe if the AI doesn't need it (for priests) then they should be more willing to trade it. I sort of like the idea about having either of them "pop up", but not with a farm. Maybe through clearing a jungle or forest you could find a new source?
 
It could be because I'm using dreiche's map scripts or that my favorite religion is runes (which uses gems instead of incense), but I never find myself short on either reagents or incense. The last time I found myself deliberately looking for reagents was when I was playing Grigori, and I found them right on a small island I was going to colonize anyway.

That said, a wonder that provides them (The Garden of Cerunnos?) would be nice. The Mines of Gal-dur (the Runes wonder that gives free iron) is one of my favorites, and I believe there should be options for all resource-dependent strategies that don't involve the map.
 
maybe there should be a very low chance of finding recources with roads and a chance of finding food recources with farms and a somewhat smaller chance of plantation stuff and animal resources
 
I had never really understood why ever in CIV4 vanilla they have introduced Incense among the chosen resource list.Was Incense so important through history?Spice,Fur, die were really important but incense except in Christian Churches where was used?
 
I had never really understood why ever in CIV4 vanilla they have introduced Incense among the chosen resource list.Was Incense so important through history?Spice,Fur, die were really important but incense except in Christian Churches where was used?
In the age before deodorant, Incense was king.
 
Sarisin you're not regenerating the map at the start of the game are you? Doing that means there is no minimum number of certain resources.

Never. If I get a bad starting location on the huge Fantasy Realm map I usually play, I go back to the Main Menu and start over.

Think about the advantage Runes has in this regard in needing Gems vice Incense for their Stonewardens:

You can get Gems by:

1. Located in your civ
2. Trade with other civs
3. Conquering a city with it
4. Popping up in a mine
5. Taking the Dragon's Hoard

If you have Leaves, you can get Incense only from the first three and #3 might be a city far away from your civ.

Don't you think if you took a map, you would find more Gems than Incense? I think #4 above is the key as I often get resources given to me in my mines. Something similar for Incense would balance the religions requirements for Priests.
 
There have been discussions that copper or iron or mithril or gems were to rare. Now it's reagents and incense. They aren't rare, but they aren't overly common either. And that's how it's supposed to work IMHO, the name "strategic resource" suggests exactly that. If this kind of resources would be as common as cows and sheeps then it wouldn't be strategic.
 
I agree. In order for a ressource to be strategic, it should be rare. It adds a tons of flavor to each game since you might not be able to get the same strategic ressources from one game to another. It adds to the replayability factor.

For example, in my last 5 games, in only one of them I had close access to mithrill. Incidently, i choose the magic/religion path instead in the other 4 games.

This is also much more manageable now since the ressource appears one tech before you can use it.
 
If you have Leaves, you can get Incense only from the first three and #3 might be a city far away from your civ.

Also how silly is it that a forest religion requires something that shows up only in desert?

Leaves should require something else. Unfortunately, silk is the only forest luxury resource currently. Perhaps wine?

OO would like pearls, but unfortunately current implementation is lanun only.

Order should stick with incense.

Veil....

This would also give some decision making for which religion to rush, insted of always rushing the same way. Depending on what you see near you during the game start.
 
There have been discussions that copper or iron or mithril or gems were to rare. Now it's reagents and incense. They aren't rare, but they aren't overly common either. And that's how it's supposed to work IMHO, the name "strategic resource" suggests exactly that. If this kind of resources would be as common as cows and sheeps then it wouldn't be strategic.

I haven't seen those discussions since metals started popping up in mines.

I agree with your point, but to level the playing field among religions as far as building priests are concerned either you should (a) have more ways of getting that strategic resource for Leaves, Order, etc. or (b) reduce the ways of Runes getting Gems.
 
I'll chip in with my support for alternate ways to get incense & reagents. Either I'm getting lousy map generation or they're one of the rarest strategic resources in FFH. I don't mind that, but it means there should be an alternate method of procuring them.

I like the idea of giving them with wonders. Incense fits perfectly with Yggdrasil since FoL of all religions should always have druids, just as RoK can always have decent melee units with Mines of Gal-dur. I assume that's why RoK gets the mines...

No idea where to provide reagents, though.
 
Hmm, I haven't played in some time, but in my experience, incense was common enough, where gems I RARELY ever had until late game. Even going full bore mining everything I could as Kazad (increased resource chance) I might find gems once in about 10-15 games, if that.
 
Also how silly is it that a forest religion requires something that shows up only in desert?

Leaves should require something else. Unfortunately, silk is the only forest luxury resource currently. Perhaps wine?

OO would like pearls, but unfortunately current implementation is lanun only.

Order should stick with incense.

Veil....

This would also give some decision making for which religion to rush, insted of always rushing the same way. Depending on what you see near you during the game start.

Interesting idea - it could make ppl chose different religions to what they normally rush as you say....
 
I think the problem isn't the rarity of incense but rather its importance. Most luxury resources (Gold, Silk, Gems) get you one happy person, (two if you are runes and have gems) but incense gets you up too four happy citizens and allows you to build priests. Its probably not very common to have runes, order and leaves in all of your cities but its pretty rare to not have any of them in one especially if you are one of those religions and there is always pagan temples.

So there might be a little work but the long term benefits of incense over the other resources is much better then the standard set of resources. I liked how you can still build axemen with out copper, so I no longer see the metal resources as being critical to war especially considering you can shift focus elsewhere like mages. I think some late round buildings that make gold and silk better would do a lot to make incenses not such a coveted commodity.
 
OK, in my game I can pretty much confirm there are only 3 instances of Incense on the huge map. Hippus has two and is not about to deal - I have tried everything just about every turn.

Elohim has one and is churning out Confessors.

Really, three on a huge map is not enough. I did not regenerate the Fantasy Realm map.

I hear what everyone is saying about it being strategic and that it should be rare, but, again, I am certain there are many more Gem instances on the map. I have 4 myself. I had two and two popped in mines.

My main point is not on the happiness you get, but the ability to build priest units in the various religions - especially, I think, because 3 religions require incense to build Priests. No priests = no inquisitors or high priests later and that can be a killer!
 
I think the problem isn't the rarity of incense but rather its importance. <snip> I think some late round buildings that make gold and silk better would do a lot to make incense not such a coveted commodity.
I haven't looked at them yet, since I'm very drawn to Elohim, so don't much worry about other races' unique buildings, but I seem to recall that there are Tailors and Jewelers out there. Do these buildings do these things? If so, perhaps they could be mimicked by learning a late tech.
 
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