Infinite City Sprawl in MP

[KiffeLesBiffles]

I played a teamer yesterday with Silverfuturist, aka eml_joe, against good players fredodo and Ardan. We lost because of me.
eml_joe wrote a post just after saying " Team mates don't know what they are doing, even if they are good" I think he refers to me .

I have tested a new strat, Infinite Cities Sprawl in mp. I was my first trial and things went wrong. Here was the situation :

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

They attack us 2 turns after the last screenshots with a "classical" Artillery push. And we lost because we were short of cash and we could not upgrade the cannon in artillery or the samurai in rifles to counter them.

For my ICS, I had piety and the liberty SP that give 1 happy per trade route. So with 1 trade routes and momument and temple, I cancel the unhapiness for city. Then , i can just build circus and colloseum to have happy for population.
Then I went for honor to have the +1 happy for garnissons cities. And then in, indus ages I went for Order for the +1 hapiness per city.

What can I have better:

- I should not have taken honnor, it costs me 3 SP for very costly Hapiness because you have to pay for garnissons units, instead I should have finish the piety tree (3 SP same as honor + 1 SP free). I would have had gold (Temple +10% gold SP and Golden age SP) and more "free culture".

- I should have maybe limited my cities to semi-viable spots, maybe 10 cities instead of 14.

- More workers to build trading posts everywhere.

I would like to hear your ideas on this strat. Is it unrealistics in MP ?

 

[MasterMishi]

sounds vulnerable early

does it pay off in gold and sci later?

if so could work if you are behind your teammate and feed them gold

 

[KM]

I ve seen the ICS beeing used more and more lalely in high level duels and 2vs2.

What is the benefitscosts of it?

I little while back everyone was settled on 4-5 cities it eemed but now u suddenly see players making 10-15 cities.

-Weaker capital of course. U ll loose out on wonders, capital growth etc I guess.

-Longer pay off time is another guess. It ll take a while to get the infra up to support it.

+Late game supremacy in production/economy

this is just my guess

U guys who know how to play iy can u post some info about the tactic

 

[KiffeLesBiffles]

sounds vulnerable early

does it pay off in gold and sci later?

if so could work if you are behind your teammate and feed them gold

it doesnot because they attack 2 turns after.... I guess I would have been stronger than him in long term but we did not had the chance to know it.

I ve seen the ICS beeing used more and more lalely in high level duels and 2vs2.

What is the benefitscosts of it?

I little while back everyone was settled on 4-5 cities it eemed but now u suddenly see players making 10-15 cities.

-Weaker capital of course. U ll loose out on wonders, capital growth etc I guess.

-Longer pay off time is another guess. It ll take a while to get the infra up to support it.

+Late game supremacy in production/economy

this is just my guess

U guys who know how to play iy can u post some info about the tactic

You do not necesseraly loose wonders. The biggest prob is cash, imo. You need cash to support your hapiness building. I think this strat is viable if you stop it in late medi/early renaissance to focus on build.

Need to do somemore tests... Someone else wants to lose with me

 

[NOQUITTERSULTAN]

Do i see fountain of youth???i never played much teamer but i have spawn cities before..i see that you guys got a lot of land farmed..when citi are 7 you ussualy only need 5 farm or less..gold more important so you can buy soldiers and buildings..from the pictures i only see to much farm...

but when i play maybe its diffrent........GG..Nice picture kiffe

 

[Silverfuturist]

I played a teamer yesterday with Silverfuturist, aka eml_joe, against good players fredodo and Ardan. We lost because of me.
eml_joe wrote a post just after saying " Team mates don't know what they are doing, even if they are good" I think he refers to me .

I have tested a new strat, Infinite Cities Sprawl in mp. I was my first trial and things went wrong. Here was the situation :

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

They attack us 2 turns after the last screenshots with a "classical" Artillery push. And we lost because we were short of cash and we could not upgrade the cannon in artillery or the samurai in rifles to counter them.

For my ICS, I had piety and the liberty SP that give 1 happy per trade route. So with 1 trade routes and momument and temple, I cancel the unhapiness for city. Then , i can just build circus and colloseum to have happy for population.
Then I went for honor to have the +1 happy for garnissons cities. And then in, indus ages I went for Order for the +1 hapiness per city.

What can I have better:

- I should not have taken honnor, it costs me 3 SP for very costly Hapiness because you have to pay for garnissons units, instead I should have finish the piety tree (3 SP same as honor + 1 SP free). I would have had gold (Temple +10% gold SP and Golden age SP) and more "free culture".

- I should have maybe limited my cities to semi-viable spots, maybe 10 cities instead of 14.

- More workers to build trading posts everywhere.

I would like to hear your ideas on this strat. Is it unrealistics in MP ?

I wasn't refering to you! That game was incredible... I am also to blame for the loss, I was 1/2 the team. Lancers are cheaper than artillary but great at killing them, I could have made many of them in anticipation for the attack. We also could have put roads in front of the border cities so that many lancers could attack and retreat, stopping the rush.

Yes, fountain of youth was in my borders, +10 happy for me... I was Arabia, I had bazaars so Japan got copies of my luxuries... should have been an ez win but I got complacent.

 

[KiffeLesBiffles]

Do i see fountain of youth???i never played much teamer but i have spawn cities

before..i see that you guys got a lot of land farmed..when citi are 7 you ussualy only need 5 farm or less..gold more important so you can buy soldiers and buildings..from the pictures i only see to much farm...

but when i play maybe its diffrent........GG..Nice picture kiffe

For sure too much farms, I need to correct that. It is hard to micromanage while in war with double moves/attack & retreats lovers like Fredo and Ardan. You need constant attention for the front. But, I need to stress less and force myself to micromanage more my empire.

I wasn't refering to you! That game was incredible... I am also to blame for the loss, I was 1/2 the team. Lancers are cheaper than artillary but great at killing them, I could have made many of them in anticipation for the attack. We also could have put roads in front of the border cities so that many lancers could attack and retreat, stopping the rush.

Yes, fountain of youth was in my borders, +10 happy for me... I was Arabia, I had bazaars so Japan got copies of my luxuries... should have been an ez win but I got complacent.

Yes it was a really great teamer and the first together. But I would have loved that it ended differently. Road in the fronts and more troops would have help for sure.

For my own part, I should have settle slower and I should have build trading post and market every where. Machu Picchu wonders would have help a lot. But we learn from our mistakes right ?

 

[uigaw423]

I played a teamer yesterday with Silverfuturist, aka eml_joe, against good players fredodo and Ardan. We lost because of me.
eml_joe wrote a post just after saying " Team mates don't know what they are doing, even if they are good" I think he refers to me .

I have tested a new strat, Infinite Cities Sprawl in mp. I was my first trial and things went wrong. Here was the situation :

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

They attack us 2 turns after the last screenshots with a "classical" Artillery push. And we lost because we were short of cash and we could not upgrade the cannon in artillery or the samurai in rifles to counter them.

For my ICS, I had piety and the liberty SP that give 1 happy per trade route. So with 1 trade routes and momument and temple, I cancel the unhapiness for city. Then , i can just build circus and colloseum to have happy for population.
Then I went for honor to have the +1 happy for garnissons cities. And then in, indus ages I went for Order for the +1 hapiness per city.

What can I have better:

- I should not have taken honnor, it costs me 3 SP for very costly Hapiness because you have to pay for garnissons units, instead I should have finish the piety tree (3 SP same as honor + 1 SP free). I would have had gold (Temple +10% gold SP and Golden age SP) and more "free culture".

- I should have maybe limited my cities to semi-viable spots, maybe 10 cities instead of 14.

- More workers to build trading posts everywhere.

I would like to hear your ideas on this strat. Is it unrealistics in MP ?

I have tried this as of lates in FFA's. It is very good for certain civs and not good for others. I still like the more standard controlled expansion approach, but depending civ and map size/type a ton of cities can be good or bad.

 

[Silverfuturist]

I have tried this as of lates in FFA's. It is very good for certain civs and not good for others. I still like the more standard controlled expansion approach, but depending civ and map size/type a ton of cities can be good or bad.

Yes! I was just thinking this. Here are my thoughts on civs it might work for:

1. Egypt: Burial tombs + liberty + piety = +5 happy per city for free!
a. liberty trade route = +1 happy + gold to pay for monument
b. monument = +1 happy, cost 1 gold
c. burial tomb = +2 happy, +1 for peity, no cost

2. Songhai: Mud Pyramid Mosks don't give extra happy, but also no maint cost and +4 culture instead of +2 from burial tombs. Less happy but more culture

3. Arabia: extra gold from trade route means +2 gold upkeep for temple, the monument is paid for.

4. France: no cost savings, but +2 culture from each city means lotsa culture.

5. China: paper maker +2 gold... but adding them to build order may take a while before all buildings made.

 

[uigaw423]

Yes! I was just thinking this. Here are my thoughts on civs it might work for:

1. Egypt: Burial tombs + liberty + piety = +5 happy per city for free!
a. liberty trade route = +1 happy + gold to pay for monument
b. monument = +1 happy, cost 1 gold
c. burial tomb = +2 happy, +1 for peity, no cost

2. Songhai: Mud Pyramid Mosks don't give extra happy, but also no maint cost and +4 culture instead of +2 from burial tombs. Less happy but more culture

3. Arabia: extra gold from trade route means +2 gold upkeep for temple, the monument is paid for.

4. France: no cost savings, but +2 culture from each city means lotsa culture.

5. China: paper maker +2 gold... but adding them to build order may take a while before all buildings made.

6. Rome: UA, enough said.

7. (situational) China: Paper mill / archer --U-->choku, defend your massive land mass while you build necessary cities

8. I am sure I am forgetting at least one more that is good with this approach. But again would be situational.

 

[tommynt]

There is no "right" amount of cities.

Imo you should build as many cities as your happyness can aford without risk of other cities having to stop grow soon.

Apart that many strats can work but with LOTS of cities you should know that u might get outteched in long run but got usually a higher production in short run.

So short said:
Lot cities = rush

Few cities = outtech

Building lot small ciites while not attacking wont get you nowhere

 

[Kyp Durron]

6. Rome: UA, enough said.

7. (situational) China: Paper mill / archer --U-->choku, defend your massive land mass while you build necessary cities

8. I am sure I am forgetting at least one more that is good with this approach. But again would be situational.

Romes UA is less effective when you are using the capital to spam settlers instead of buildings though.. Just a thought.

 

[uigaw423]

Romes UA is less effective when you are using the capital to spam settlers instead of buildings though.. Just a thought.

I don't think "spamming" settlers is ever a good idea and not what I was implying.....infinite city sprawl will never be like civ 4.

 

[Kyp Durron]

Not really familiar with Civ4 as much. But before these patches we def spammed settlers until there was no more room on the map for cities. And I think that was Kiffes intented goal.. But excluding the word "spamming" You typically would use your capital to build the settlers for 10 something cities, and during that time its not growing, or building buildings. Thereby not using the Roman UA to its potential.

 

[uigaw423]

Not really familiar with Civ4 as much. But before these patches we def spammed settlers until there was no more room on the map for cities. And I think that was Kiffes intented goal.. But excluding the word "spamming" You typically would use your capital to build the settlers for 10 something cities, and during that time its not growing, or building buildings. Thereby not using the Roman UA to its potential.

I guess I just never have been a fan of spamming to that degree even in previous civuses.

 

[Kyp Durron]

Used this method in a 3v3 last night, 11 cities with France and 8 happy when I stopped building Settlers. Had 200 science by turn 125.

We beat Djmax, Ardan and Ustmip via tech by nuking them. It was me, Fredodo, and SilverFuturist.

 

[Silverfuturist]

Used this method in a 3v3 last night, 11 cities with France and 8 happy when I stopped building Settlers. Had 200 science by turn 125.

We beat Djmax, Ardan and Ustmip via tech by nuking them. It was me, Fredodo, and SilverFuturist.

Wow, didn't realize your science was that high so quickly - how many libraries/universities did you have in your cities?

I was the opposite - Aztecs at 3 huge cities. I kept wanting to put a 4th city down, but I was growing so quickly that my happy was hovering just above zero, didn't want to go in the red. I was on the front line, they had Rome, Iriquois and Japan to rush... wthout the voice chat to coordinate their rushes, I think they would have taken my capital.

 

[Kyp Durron]

I had National College, and 5 Univ..

 

[Kyp Durron]

Didnt hurt that in the late game your cap was defense 73 lol...

 

[Silverfuturist]

73 capital... I had walls, castle, but not the next one up (arsenal I think?) and I didn't have The Kremlin, but I took the Liberty policy of +33% city defense. My record so far is 149 in a big capital with every building/wonder/policy that juices up the defense. The opponent's Mech Infantry and bombers were dying when they struck it, but he spammed them and had ranged attacks... that was back when I was a "noob" and I ended up losing the game cuz I didn't know what I was doing.