Inner Politics / Political Factions System [CANCELED]

[raystuttgart]

Hi guys,

I know we have enough ideas and todos already on our list.
It is just that my brain started working on something, so I thought I might try to write it down.

See, games like e.g. Stellaris and other 4x games have "Political Factions" as a feature.
And I usually really like the implementation of that feature, because it adds another strategic dimension.

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Political Factions Systems usually work with this:

1) They influence "Happiness" (e.g. Bonusses / Malusses) of your Civ or "Stability" (Revolts / Festivities) and thus you better try to consider these factions in your decisions (e.g. event choices)
2) Of course there are usually also mechanics to convert citziens from one faction to another (by propaganda, by bribe, by Civic choices, by event choices ...)

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So I have always wondered if such a system could work in Civ4Col (i.e. WTP) and be fun.
Because as I said, in most games that implemented something like that it is indeed fun and adds challenge.

Generally:

1. We have "Happiness" System to work with if we would introduce "Political Factions".
2. We could most likely add "Faction Modifiers" to the Python Event choices and trigger "follow up events" based on their approval
3. We might add also a "Faction" Attribute to each Colonist Unit, so to calculate "Faction Percentages" in a Civ
4. We might add mechanics to influence the Units to convert to another Faction (e.g. as an Inner Politics Advisor Screen)
5. We might even tie such a System into the Civic System once we implement it

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Of course it should not be just a "Free Goody" feature, but each decision considering "faction support" should have positive and negative aspects.

By the way: names are just "ideas".
(I have not yet fully thought this through)

e.g.

• Conservatives --> + Crosses, - Liberty Bells (for City)
  
• Liberals --> + Liberty Bells, - Crosses (for City)
  
• Capitalists --> + Hammers, - Food (for City)
  
• Socialists --> + Food, - Hammers (for City)
  
• Humanists --> + Health, - Happiness (for City)
  
• Anarchists --> + Happiness, - Health ((for City)

Maybe also stuff like:
(Not yet sure about it.)

• Militarists --> + defense modifier, + upkeep modifier (for City)
  
• Pacifists --> - defense modifier, - upkeep modifier (for City)

so e.g. the following distribution of faction affiliations of your citizens:

• 30% Conservatives --> +30% Crosses, - 30% Bells (for City)
  
• 10% Liberals --> +10% Bells , -10% Crosses (for City)
  
• 30% Capitalists --> +30% Hammers, - 30% Food (for City)
  
• 10% Socialists --> +10% Food, -10% Hammers (for City)
  
• 0% Humanists--> + 0% Health, - 0% Happiness (for City)
  
• 20% Utopists --> + 20% Happiness, - 20% Health (for City)

could result in these modifiers:

• +20% Modifier on Crosses (for City)
  
• -20% Modifier on Liberty Bells (for City)
  
• +20% Modifier on Hammers (for City)
  
• -20% Modifier on Food (for City)
  
• +20% Modifier on Happiness (for City)
  
• -20% Modifier on Health (for City)

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Factions could be implemented as "Per City" or on a "Civ Level", although "Per City" seems more fun.
e.g. Jamestown could be highly liberal, while e.g. Virginia is very conservative.
(Thus your decisions may make on City happy and anger the other.)

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If Python Event Choices influece faction affiliation rates or causes faction reactions they should have a hint on that in the "Event Help Text".

e.g. for an choice that is "pro Conservative" / "against Liberals" the hint may show this

• "Increases affiliation of Conservatives in Jamestown by 10%"
  
• "Decreases affiliation of Liberals in Jamestown by 10%"
• "Causes Festivities in Jamestown if affiliation of Conservatives is higher than affiliation of Liberals"
  
• "Causes Revolts in Jamestown if affiliation of Liberals is higher than affiliation of Conservatives"

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So basically each City would offer different strategic situations requiring different choices.
(To be considered e.g. in events, during selection of civics, ... supporting a bit of role playing.)

1. Each City could offer different modifiers (positive or negative) to work with or counter.
2. Each City could react differently (positive or negative) to your decisions as a governor.

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To clarify:
I am not trying to create something like a "democratic political system".
(Since colonies were still governed by abstolutist monarchies basically.)

However:
Political tendencies already did exist and people had different ideologies.
(And those of course influenced the happiness and productivities of communities.)

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Goals of the Concept:
(City modifiers, Python Events, Civics and Happiness would have more dependencies.)

1. Flesh out Python Event System Choices to have more consequences.
2. Make more use of "Happiness" System (including Festivities + Revolts)
3. Add a bit of "role playing element" to strategic player decisions (e.g. for Civic System)
4. More strategic diversity for Cities, by giving different modifiers caused by player decisions.
5. Allowing for interesting strategies using synergies of "Civ Modifiers" and "Faction Modifiers" *

* e.g

• Spanish fostering Militarists Movement ...
  
• English fostering Liberals Movement ...
  
• Dutch fostering Capitalist Movement ...

or something completely different like

• Pacifist Spanish ...
  
• English Conservatives ...
  
• Dutch Militarists ...

Who knows what might work best.

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Well, it is currently nothing more than a vague idea I had in my mind.
(It might never be implemented since there are endless todos with higher priority out there.)

Effort to implement something like this would be quite considerable actually ... but creating it might also be fun.
(Tying the "Faction System" into Units, Buildings, Happiness, Civics, Python Events, ... and creating a new "Inner Politics Advisor Screen".)

Again, it is just brainstorming and sharing ideas ...
(I am a micro-magager that likes to have such systems to tinker with.)

 

[Mr. ZorG]

interesting idea. you can try to attach FF to it. perhaps not all, but only a part.

 

[ConjurerDragon]

I cringe at the thought that in my colonies of the 15th or 16th century capitalists and communists are factions. These are ideas that came up after the industrial revolution lead to growing cities and people leaving the countryside for jobs. Use of those labels started not really before Marx and Engels began their work and "Das Kapital" was written.

What would fit before in the timeline would be the challenge between protectionists/merkantilists and free trade - e. g. as in the way the Northern US wanted high tolls to protect their growing industry from the UK while the Southern US wanted low tolls to export their tobacco/cotton to e.g. the UK and to import luxury goods from there without additional costs which lead to an additional rift between North and South. But even that is strictly speaking out of the 1492-1792 timeline and assumes a sovereign US and not a colony.

 

[raystuttgart]

I cringe at the thought that in my colonies of the 15th or 16th century capitalists and communists are factions.

As I said, the names of the factions were just first ideas since I was lacking better terms.
I know that such terms did not really exist yet, but the general ideas did - although much less clearly formulated.
e.g. "Enlightenment" or "Renaissance" or "Pacifism" or the idea of "Free Trade" aka "Mercantilism" are much older.

Edit:
I am open to all suggestions of possible factions.
If there is something immersive, let me know.

Edit 2:
If it ends up being only 4 factions or only 2 that might also be ok.
(Maybe the "Faction / Inner Politics System" might even work better with less factions.)

Edit 3:
Maybe the factions should be more about "Conservatives" and "Liberals".
(That might be generic enough to be immersive and still work well ...)

 

[ConjurerDragon]

Levellers and Diggers
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levellers

Both are from England which makes sense for the british colonies. Levellers would be those who "level" society and who would want to abolish all privileges of the nobility and rule by people sovereignity (which would be a problem for aristocrats, nobleman or figures like the appointed governor) and the diggers who on top of that were for "common ownership" as some sort of pre-marxism without extended personal property.

 

[raystuttgart]

Hm, I guess this is not going to work considering immersion.
(Also it would most likely be incredible effort to implement it nicely and tie it into the features mentioned.)

It is most likely better to cancel it.

 

[raystuttgart]

I also got inspired by your canceled political ideas.

I still like the idea and in a "Sci-Fi Scenario" or "2nd World Scenario" we would most likely be able to create something immersive and fun.
But with the limitiations of the "Colonial Age Scenario" something like "political factions / inner politics" would become either unimmersive or boring.

Summary:
I cannot come up with a good concept that is both immersive and fun.
That is a clear sign for me to rather not invest unnecessary effort.

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Edit:
I also still have my concept "Religions of the New World".
(It also works a bit similar to this and also ties into e.g. Happiness / Stability.)

 

[Milamber1931]

I notice a lot of ideas get put up for a community of thousands of people who all have different opinions and desires to see details added. It would seem that the most reasonable way to handle what gets put in or excluded would be a weighted voting system perhaps with more weight lent towards those willing to put in the work on the coding necessary. As of yet I haven't seen a link or a thread where these ideas are finalized. If this exists could someone please direct or if not explain whatever the system currently is please?

 

[raystuttgart]

It would seem that the most reasonable way to handle ...

Your "reasonable way" would basically mean the mod would be dead.
Because none of us modders would like to work that way and quit contributing to the mod.

whatever the system currently is please?

Each of us modder decides for himself what he is motivated to work on and when.
The stuff that gets "core mod" is simply the stuff that all active modders agree on.

That is simply the way that voluntary contributions in a community works.
The people that actually do the work also make the decisions what happens with it.

We modders listen to the feedback of players and community of course.
But we are not paid workers and thus still free to make our own decisions.

 

[Milamber1931]

Makes a lot of sense, even the most basic attempts at streamlining and central planning would consume much effort. This is my 1st real foray into forums and online collective projects. Thanks for the clarification Ray, I greatly enjoy what you all have accomplished so far.