Intel graphics display and Civ4: does it work 4 U?

[Comraddict]

Point is that people were not paying attention when purchasing laptops. It is their own fault. There are laptops out there that cost $50 to $100 more; that have GeForce or Radeon; and virtually all of them are capable of running CIV IV.

When assessing the right laptop, one must be aware that the graphic card you get it with it cannot be replaced.

Blame yourself and intel for your situation. Next time - get AMD and nvidia laptop.

 

[doronron]

When I bought my old Toshiba Satellite, all I was paying attention to was the vastly superior CPU and RAM capacity. At that point in time, back in 2003, TnL was a non-issue, as none of the games and the market then forced users to rely on the hardware architecture found in the ATI and nVidia cards. Those were more or less extra features that looked nice, but weren't necessary.

That's changed since then, and I spent over a year and a half finding random games were little better than coasters for my machine. The only reason I was able to upgrade was the budget I put myself on for about eight months, and the desire not to have to deal with similar incompatibility issues again.

In all honesty, this doesn't say anything really great about my priorities. The laptop itself was more than sufficient for my more responsible endeavors. This new machine was purchased primarily due to my frustration with the growing number of games I wanted to play...

 

[New World Order]

Thanks for starting this thread as some related information was helpful. I also have an Intel, _865GLC well, you know the one.

Anyhow, most people like me, just wanna play a game in their spare time. They don't want expensive upgrades, or to be first in line purchasing a new X-Box 360 console for their cousins bar mitzva. They also demand a bit of respect, and time. Especially when they are spending they're own money.

They dont want to get sucked into some miserable dimension of pirates, hackers, and corporate bozos, who all want to suck you dry, and unless you've been dealing with computers since the begining, http://www.grc.com/ you dont't want to have to learn new jargon, paying all sorts of cash to be told 'you made the wrong purchase, idiot! You should've got this-and-that custom built here, for cheaper.- Ha!Ha!'

My computer dealer told me: "I wouldn't need a video card - its already got the best!"
But I think becasue their first language is Serbian, they were only afraid that answering 'yes' would affect my decision to buy the computer. But in reality, I would've got the card THEN, knowing Intel sucks. You dont have to be a rocket scientist to know you've been ripped off once you purchase an Intel product - but whats a consumer to do but post blogs? The positive thing, is that now I can look into getting a 'good' video card - something I've been meaning to for a while.

I've got Intel chipset (865GLC) Do any geniuses out there know if I can even support a video card? Ive got 8 AGP slots, but know jack-squat about computers as my post has thus proven.

In conclusion, to not purchase Civ4 sounded like sane advice from a wise consumer, and not all people can be experts at everything. (Computers, Cars, Machinery, Engineering etc. etc. etc.) Good luck on the return, I have already pre-ordered, and am SUPPOSEDLY getting it tomorrow (Canaduh border cops probably playing everyones copy of Civ 4) but now I am sure it wont work, will see about getting my pre-order funds re-imbursed and NOT purchasing this product.

C3C @ the 'Sid' level - Here I come

 

[Dutch Canuck]

You're completely insane. Do you realize that even though you might have bought your laptop in 2003 it might have been built in 2001? Ever think about that? .

Rubbish. I know my machine and where I purchased it.

The reason I was "being rude" was because you were assaulting Firaxis - which is totally unwaranted. It's not Firaxis's fault that your computer sucks. Keep in mind that Civ 4 takes a very slow computer to run anyway EVEN THOUGH IT CAME OUT IN 2005. The Gfx aren't amazing or anything, and that being said, newer games like Quake 4 or Fear take a pc that's ten times faster than Civ 4...

Firaxis knows there are plenty of civvers like me who enjoy civ3 on their machines with Intel graphics - including some machines built today. It is to their business advantage to keep customers like me in mind. If they choose not to - or it may be that for technical reasons they can't - they will loose a large base of customers like me. No one is blaming anyone here. Sometimes things don't work out as we like right away. A work-around may be necessary... I'm not buying a spanking new machine for one game - that's jusy crazy.

The only assaulting here are words like "your computer sucks" and that charming little PM I received from you in my mail here calling me a moron and other lovely expletives. How mature...

 

[Dutch Canuck]

Thanks for starting this thread as some related information was helpful. I also have an Intel, _865GLC well, you know the one.

Anyhow, most people like me, just wanna play a game in their spare time. They don't want expensive upgrades, or to be first in line purchasing a new X-Box 360 console for their cousins bar mitzva. They also demand a bit of respect, and time. Especially when they are spending they're own money.

They dont want to get sucked into some miserable dimension of pirates, hackers, and corporate bozos, who all want to suck you dry, and unless you've been dealing with computers since the begining, http://www.grc.com/ you dont't want to have to learn new jargon, paying all sorts of cash to be told 'you made the wrong purchase, idiot! You should've got this-and-that custom built here, for cheaper.- Ha!Ha!'

My computer dealer told me: "I wouldn't need a video card - its already got the best!"
But I think becasue their first language is Serbian, they were only afraid that answering 'yes' would affect my decision to buy the computer. But in reality, I would've got the card THEN, knowing Intel sucks. You dont have to be a rocket scientist to know you've been ripped off once you purchase an Intel product - but whats a consumer to do but post blogs? The positive thing, is that now I can look into getting a 'good' video card - something I've been meaning to for a while.

I've got Intel chipset (865GLC) Do any geniuses out there know if I can even support a video card? Ive got 8 AGP slots, but know jack-squat about computers as my post has thus proven.

In conclusion, to not purchase Civ4 sounded like sane advice from a wise consumer, and not all people can be experts at everything. (Computers, Cars, Machinery, Engineering etc. etc. etc.) Good luck on the return, I have already pre-ordered, and am SUPPOSEDLY getting it tomorrow (Canaduh border cops probably playing everyones copy of Civ 4) but now I am sure it wont work, will see about getting my pre-order funds re-imbursed and NOT purchasing this product.

C3C @ the 'Sid' level - Here I come

Thank you. I needed someone on my side. Best of luck on the return option. Maybe some of us will play Civ4 one day when we can afford an upgrade - assuming that's our only option.

 

[Andrew_Jay]

I heard 2 people say it worked with their Intel 9xx, which is what I have. But I'm still waiting to learn more.

Really? I'm running the Mobile Intel 915GM/GMS, 910GML card on my (three month old!) Dell Inspiron 6000 laptop.

While these cards don't actually have T&L, they say that they emulate them in the software - which I should be able to handle with 512MB RAM.

 

[Knight-Dragon]

Moderator Action: Moved to CIV Technical.

 

[Dutch Canuck]

Moderator Action: Moved to CIV Technical.

Good idea K-D. Thank you.

 

[Nicole]

I can confirm Intel 915GM/GMS 910GML works fine, at least at 128MB. Yesterday my movies weren't working; today they are plaing fine. Go figure.

They just released a new driver for that card last month, so even if you think your drivers are up to date, they might not be.

 

[Andrew_Jay]

I can confirm Intel 915GM/GMS 910GML works fine, at least at 128MB. Yesterday my movies weren't working; today they are plaing fine. Go figure.

They just released a new driver for that card last month, so even if you think your drivers are up to date, they might not be.

Wow, thanks a lot!

 

[gunnerxtr]

this is awesome news!!!

 

[Nightfa11]

You're completely insane. Do you realize that even though you might have bought your laptop in 2003 it might have been built in 2001? Ever think about that? .

You know as much about marketing and product inventories as you do about being polite.

I've seen an xml fix around here for chipsets that can't render T&L. Something about revealing the whole map via a setting. Ah, here it is

here's what i did:

open up Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Assets\XML\Technologies\CIV4TechInfos.xml

and do a replace all changing <bMapVisible>0</bMapVisible> to <bMapVisible>1</bMapVisible>.

I do not know if this works but I will probably get around to testing it in a day or two. I have it running on a laptop with a radeon 9700, and have a intel 9xx and 82xx laptop to test it on. I will report back but it might be next week.

[soapbox]
For all of you who are about as helpful as a stick up the butt, some people can't just go buy a new computer on a whim. Some people don't want a desktop because a laptop is 1000x more convenient. I've owned top of the line desktops, and they spend most of their time gathering dust because a laptop is more convenient, FOR ME. Don't go judging how other people use computers because your tiny little brains can't conceive that someone might have different priorities.

Sheesh!
[/soapbox]

 

[New World Order]

I know Firaxis said from the beginning that T&L were required, so Im not mad, but I hope there can be a workaround in the mix for Intel users.

I searched for Intel, T&L on the net, and came across this for the game 'Tron 2.0' which had a T&L issue on intel chipsets, for which a patch was released, and the T&L issue was resolved for 865GLC models and higher. Maybe there is hope for some of us.

Check it out...I am still looking at other things regarding this issue...

http://www.intel.com/support/graphics/sb/cs-006363.htm

 

[mrpresidentbob]

I have: Intel(R) 82852/82855 GM/GME Graphics Controller (Intel(R) 82852/82855 GM/GME Controller). No T&L.

I loaded it up. Started it and everything seemed normal except for skipping sound during the intro movie. And then... CHESHIRE LEADERHEADS! No solution for that. But then...BLACK TERRAIN!

There is a semi-solution for that - go into worldbuilder from the in-game menu and select reveal all terrain in the upper left hand corner. Then turn it off, but all the terrain will visible. This does turn off fog of war, which frustrates me to no end, but it does make it playable. I turned graphics down to low just to be safe.

It is definitely a major step in the right direction, and it makes it playable. Also, for everyone who's saying "oh, you ignorant idiots should have thought about that when you bought your laptop", stop. Just stop. No one expects a brand new laptop, in many cases less than a year old not to support something like that. That is all.

 

[Dutch Canuck]

For those like me with Intel(R) 82852/82855 GM/GME Graphics Controller, thanks to NWO's lead I found this:
http://support.intel.com/support/graphics/sb/CS-010471.htm

If one pokes around there you'll find out what games Intel has tested for its other controllers. I'll presuppose that Civ4 is too new for Intel to have had access to test it yet so I imagine Intel will have no news for a little while. When they do I hope it's no worse than some file tinkering. I don't mind waiting a little if the outcome is good... would've been nice to dive-in, buy the game, play this weekend and share the excitement! Alas, such is life sometimes.

Aside from waiting for Intel to do something - if they can - I'll continue to look around for other news and info...

 

[piranhaZ]

It is definitely a major step in the right direction, and it makes it playable. Also, for everyone who's saying "oh, you ignorant idiots should have thought about that when you bought your laptop", stop. Just stop. No one expects a brand new laptop, in many cases less than a year old not to support something like that. That is all.

Amen bro. Even current laptops have Intel vidsets. This sorta reminds me of Master of Orion 3, except that game was truly sucky. Maybe Galactic Civilizations 2 will fill the void.

 

[Comraddict]

I have: Intel(R) 82852/82855 GM/GME Graphics Controller (Intel(R) 82852/82855 GM/GME Controller). No T&L.

It is definitely a major step in the right direction, and it makes it playable. Also, for everyone who's saying "oh, you ignorant idiots should have thought about that when you bought your laptop", stop. Just stop. No one expects a brand new laptop, in many cases less than a year old not to support something like that. That is all.

Sorry, but lack of TnL support is part of problem. Intel doesn't make graphic chips. That thing is more emulation than anything else. The real problem is that such graphic "engine" is slower than slowest graphic cards that was released 3 yrs ago.

 

[Dutch Canuck]

This is not good, not bad either - not very definitive let's say: http://www.intel.com/support/graphics/sb/CS-003992.htm.

A small number of games that specifically check for hardware T&L support may fail to run.

Does this specifically include Civ4 or not, that is the question for me. Maybe the folks at Firaxis can give a precise answer? (Hello? Sid and friends? )

In most games, transform and lighting calculations can be performed on the processor with acceptable performance.

Is this where a work-around is possible? File adjustmets? Downloads? Something Firaxis can offer? I really don't know on this point.

Intel's web page for the above link was last updated Jun 4th/2004... Intel doesn't have much to say regarding hardware T&L lately. My research so far is persuading to understand better what Comraddict said regarding T&L specs - it is easier to follow now that I've read something myself.

The question for me now is whether, since June 2004, there is a possible work-around today at all. I'm not enough of a comp sci engineer to know...

 

[randallman]

You're completely insane. Do you realize that even though you might have bought your laptop in 2003 it might have been built in 2001? Ever think about that? And my computer, which I bought 3 years ago, still runs Civ 4 on the higher settings. It's an AMD processor w/ a Geforce 5 I think.

The reason I was "being rude" was because you were assaulting Firaxis - which is totally unwaranted. It's not Firaxis's fault that your computer sucks. Keep in mind that Civ 4 takes a very slow computer to run anyway EVEN THOUGH IT CAME OUT IN 2005. The Gfx aren't amazing or anything, and that being said, newer games like Quake 4 or Fear take a pc that's ten times faster than Civ 4. Now, if your computer is so outdated that it can't even run Civ 4, I don't know what to tell you.

Go play PS2 or something.

I think you are REALLY missing the point.

A) Civ1,2, and 3 were all games oriented to the 'thinking' type as opposed to the 'hand eye coordination' type.
B) Many Civilization fans are people that don't play FPS games or even some RTS games (all based on hand eye coordination)
C) Many Civilization fans are bound to not have 'gaming systems' with video cards that support Hardware T&L/
D) Many people are interested in playing this TURN BASED STRATEGY game on a laptop. Many laptops have video cards that do not support hardware T&L. Sure, many of the 'desktop replacement' laptops do, but not the smaller, more portable units.
E) Most of the computers that can't run Civ4 due to hardware T&L issues are NOT 'outdated' as you say, but they simply lack the one feature that is causing the headaches - hardware T&L... a 1.8ghz celeron laptop w/ 1gb of ram is not *outdated*

In my case - I have 2 perfect desktops... One is a 3.4ghz pIV w/ 1GB of ram and a ATI 9800 pro w/256MB. The other is an Athlon 1800XP+ w/ 1GB of ram and a GeForce ti4400. Unfortunately, my BRAND NEW LAPTOP (which was not bought for games at all) has this Intel Extreme Graphics card in it. Its a Dell Inspiron 700m - Very small - Very efficient (5 hrs of battery life on the extended battery and 2.5 on the stock one). It has 1GB of ram and its a 1.8ghz celeron. The graphics card doesnt support hardware T&L of course... And you can't even get a better card on this model. The only other option for me in this class of laptop (16:9, 12.1" TFT, small and efficient) was the Sony Vaio S class (13.1" TFT). That would have cost me $2500.00 as opposed to the $1100.00 I paid for the Dell.

At the end of the day, the dang engine should just support software T&L. I wouldn't mind the slowdown and I suppose many of the others in the same situation as I am also would not. At the end of the day, this is a TURN BASED STRATEGY game. I dont need eye-candy, I want good rules and a good challenge that I can play while winding down in some hotel room after a day onsite at a customer's facility.

What I really wanted was Civ3 graphics w/ Civ4 rules

 

[userlain]

Point is that people were not paying attention when purchasing laptops. It is their own fault. There are laptops out there that cost $50 to $100 more; that have GeForce or Radeon; and virtually all of them are capable of running CIV IV.

When assessing the right laptop, one must be aware that the graphic card you get it with it cannot be replaced.

Blame yourself and intel for your situation. Next time - get AMD and nvidia laptop.

You are wrong, sucker. The Intel Centrino 9xx chipsets run the game just fine.