Intel graphics display and Civ4: does it work 4 U?

[TheBarnacle]

I don't know where you guys have been the last seven years.

your mom's.

c'mon, seriously? you're goign to hate on people like that. you tool.

my box is 5 mos old (yes, intel 8xx series) and while i'm not entirely geeked out on computers or games, i fully expected a new computer would run new games. where have YOU been the past 7 years? these aren't the dark ages of computers. you think compatibility issues at this stage of the tech game are normal? or should be acceptable?? the fact that consumers tire of these types of issues is exactly why PC gaming has suffered. people want out of the box satisfaction. not everyone wants to pay $2000 + for a computer anymore (why should we?? to play a few games??).

to answer the topic, my lousy intel 8xx did NOT render. not suprising since the intel site specifically says the chipset does not support T&L.

that said, if you get a new card (i got an fx5200), there may still be lingering issues (lag, choppy video, etc.) which could be card issue still or memory. who knows. the games sucks anyway. just wait.

 

[sgtcasey]

A new computer doesn't mean anything. I can purchase and put together a brand new computer that won't run any new games. It all depends on what hardware you place in the new computer.

That being said, I have yet to load the game up on my laptop, but because of my line of work (network engineering) I will in the next few days as I hit the road for a few days again. I paid $1100 for my HP Pavilion w/64MB Nvidia graphics card, 512MB RAM, and 17" widescreen display. Sure, it's a little heavy, but that's why they make backpacks and it plays game great!

I helped with support for another game for about a year on a volunteer basis and one of the constants we always heard "But they said the Intel graphics cards would play games just fine!" Sure... games like Minefield. They're not even really graphics cards and in many cases they use up system RAM as video RAM.

Hopefully a number of folks out there who are using not-so-good graphics cards will learn from this. Even the "simple" games can require something with a little more power in it.

Dave

 

[gunnerxtr]

You are wrong, sucker. The Intel Centrino 9xx chipsets run the game just fine.

lol haha, i hope you are right!

 

[TheBarnacle]

A new computer doesn't mean anything. I can purchase and put together a brand new computer that won't run any new games. It all depends on what hardware you place in the new computer.

obviously.

i don't think it's unreasonable for people who are NOT big gamers, who also ENJOY games from time to time, to buy a new computer thinking they'll be fine. speed, ram, space. have usually been the biggest culprits (in my experience) in not being able to run a game. not chipset nightmares like this.

regardless, there are more problems than the intel chip sucking. if you EVER want to play the game properly (assuming these problems get worked out), i'm guessing a card upgrade will be necessary. that i already did....whatever...

 

[sgtcasey]

obviously.

i don't think it's unreasonable for people who are NOT big gamers, who also ENJOY games from time to time, to buy a new computer thinking they'll be fine. speed, ram, space. have usually been the biggest culprits (in my experience) in not being able to run a game. not chipset nightmares like this.

regardless, there are more problems than the intel chip sucking. if you EVER want to play the game properly (assuming these problems get worked out), i'm guessing a card upgrade will be necessary. that i already did....whatever...

Technology moves forward quickly these days. That PC someone paid $2,000 for last year won't be as good as the one you can buy for $1,500 today. Plus, computer makers like Dell probably cause a lot of confusion by offering up systems for $450. What they don't mention is that you'll be able to surf the 'net and maybe play a game that was released a year or two ago with that system.

Of course, it all comes down to the end-user. If you don't bother to do a bit of research on what you're spending your money on, don't be upset when it doesn't work how you wanted it to.

BTW, I don't think the problem is with the Intel chipset, but rather the Intel graphics "cards". I am using an Intel chipset in the home desktop and the game runs great.

dave

 

[TheBarnacle]

Technology moves forward quickly these days. That PC someone paid $2,000 for last year won't be as good as the one you can buy for $1,500 today. Plus, computer makers like Dell probably cause a lot of confusion by offering up systems for $450. What they don't mention is that you'll be able to surf the 'net and maybe play a game that was released a year or two ago with that system.

Of course, it all comes down to the end-user. If you don't bother to do a bit of research on what you're spending your money on, don't be upset when it doesn't work how you wanted it to.

BTW, I don't think the problem is with the Intel chipset, but rather the Intel graphics "cards". I am using an Intel chipset in the home desktop and the game runs great.

dave

no doubt. and that argument would hold more water were it entirely an issue with "old slow poor performing" machines. that just doesn't seem to be the case. whatever the problem (card, chipset), intel said the 8xx series i had simply doesn't support T&L. since the nvid card fixed that floating teeth syndrome, i'm inclined to believe they're telling me the truth.

the real sucky thing is, the game itself PLAYED quite well on the intel card (just no terrain). now, i see the terrain, but it's so damn slow and choppy.

just not that much fun for $120.

 

[sgtcasey]

no doubt. and that argument would hold more water were it entirely an issue with "old slow poor performing" machines. that just doesn't seem to be the case. whatever the problem (card, chipset), intel said the 8xx series i had simply doesn't support T&L. since the nvid card fixed that floating teeth syndrome, i'm inclined to believe they're telling me the truth.

the real sucky thing is, the game itself PLAYED quite well on the intel card (just no terrain). now, i see the terrain, but it's so damn slow and choppy.

just not that much fun for $120.

How much system RAM do you have? Also check your page file size, it should be 1.5 times the size of your system RAM. But I've found that a size of 2GB works good in most cases.

Dave

 

[maartena]

At the end of the day, the dang engine should just support software T&L.

It has been confirmed that if your video card supports software T&L, the game will run - such as with the newer Intel 9xxx series.

The problem is with cards that don't support ANY form of T&L, whether software or hardware such as the Intel 8xxx series. My laptop has that too, so I will have to stick to Civ 3 on the laptop.

Also understand that the decission to develop the game with T&L is one that lies at the core of game development, and cannot be changed with a "backwards compatible patch" of some sorts. Supporting hardware that does not support any form of T&L will mean a complete restructuring of the Civ 4 code, and you can be pretty darn sure they won't offer a 800 Mb patch to patch all the graphics back to a non-T&L environment, and you can also be pretty darn sure they won't bring a "Civ 4 Light Edition" on the market.

It means that we both have to play on our desktop computers and not on our laptops. It won't run on mine either, I am sure of that.

 

[randallman]

It has been confirmed that if your video card supports software T&L, the game will run - such as with the newer Intel 9xxx series.

The problem is with cards that don't support ANY form of T&L, whether software or hardware such as the Intel 8xxx series. My laptop has that too, so I will have to stick to Civ 3 on the laptop.

Also understand that the decission to develop the game with T&L is one that lies at the core of game development, and cannot be changed with a "backwards compatible patch" of some sorts. Supporting hardware that does not support any form of T&L will mean a complete restructuring of the Civ 4 code, and you can be pretty darn sure they won't offer a 800 Mb patch to patch all the graphics back to a non-T&L environment, and you can also be pretty darn sure they won't bring a "Civ 4 Light Edition" on the market.

It means that we both have to play on our desktop computers and not on our laptops. It won't run on mine either, I am sure of that.

Of course, yes - the entire engine for the game is based on the availability of certain graphics features in software. What I am wondering is why one of the aftermarket '3d software T&L' applications wont work - or even better, why doesnt the intel 8xxxx driver do software T&L? If the crappy hardware won't do it, why can't they just do it in software? For a card to be dx9.x compliant, it is supposed to support SOME type of T&L (be it software or hardware)...

--Randallman

 

[gunnerxtr]

It has been confirmed that if your video card supports software T&L, the game will run - such as with the newer Intel 9xxx series.

has this been officially confirmed? sorry to pry, but im not eager to thorw away 50 bucks

 

[Landmonitor]

I have the amazing Dell Dimension 3000 (2.4 GHz 512 RAM Some Intel thing) (Which my girlfriend bought as a "work" computer) and it ran Civ 3 fine. However, on Civ IV, I get cheshire cat/black terrain syndrome bad! I'm going to pick up a state-of-the-art PCI (I have no AGP!) card, the Radeon 9250 with 256 MB of RAM. Hopefully that works.

 

[randallman]

I have the amazing Dell Dimension 3000 (2.4 GHz 512 RAM Some Intel thing) (Which my girlfriend bought as a "work" computer) and it ran Civ 3 fine. However, on Civ IV, I get cheshire cat/black terrain syndrome bad! I'm going to pick up a state-of-the-art PCI (I have no AGP!) card, the Radeon 9250 with 256 MB of RAM. Hopefully that works.

Not having an AGP or PCI-e slot is pretty bad I feel for ya... I guess you're still better off than those of us with brand new craptops that still wont play the game

 

[gunnerxtr]

haha brand new craptops is right... of course i might be in luck with my intel 9xx

 

[Double_A]

with the Intel 8XX chipset you can run the game, however you will get the black terrain, the way around this is to revise the XML file located in the game files. doing this will cause you to see the entire map. except enemies. Its like the clear screen cheat in CIV 3. If you are desperate like i was to play this game then its worth it, as it was for me. I probably would have ended up finding and using the cheat code anyway! So, if you wanna be on an equal playing field like AI then you can edit this way

goto: "C:\Program Files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Assets\XML\Technologies

OPEN: CIV4TechInfos with notepad

then goto File | Relpace...
then replace all

<bMapVisible>0</bMapVisible>

with

<bMapVisible>1</bMapVisible>

...this works as i have used it and i have the Intel 8xx

 

[TheBarnacle]

How much system RAM do you have? Also check your page file size, it should be 1.5 times the size of your system RAM. But I've found that a size of 2GB works good in most cases.

Dave

512mb ram

i THINK the page file size is 1.25gb? i say "think" b/c i really don't know how to know that.

i did play this evening, and when the game lagged a lot, i went out to the desktop to check the performance and the page file was getting up to 300+. sometimes 400, but no more. it did climb from 90 to 120 to 300 the longer i played, but leveled (i have NO idea what that means).

i'm curious whether there is any useful info to be found in the init logs. i found several references to errors in the audio log:

[4423.875] ERR: FAudioSystemMiles::Set3DSoundPosition: Illegal index -1 of type 1
[4423.968] ERR: FAudioSystemMiles::Set3DSoundPosition: Illegal index -1 of type 1
[4424.140] ERR: FAudioSystemMiles::Set3DSoundPosition: Illegal index -1 of type 1
[5431.921] ERR: FSharedSoundData::Load: Could not read file Sounds/Buildings/HangingGardens.
[5431.937] WRN: Dynamic resident sound could not be loaded, GlobalId: 278
[5431.937] WRN: FSound:: DoLoad: Sound Sounds/Buildings/HangingGardens could acquire a loaded buffer.
[5431.937] WRN: FAudioManager:: DoSound(): Could not load scriptId 252./n

and in the resmgr log:

RESMGR: Texture PlayerColor01.tga failed to load
RESMGR: Texture PlayerColor02.tga failed to load
RESMGR: Animation set file art/LeaderHeads/Julius_Caesar/Julius_Caesar_BG.kfm was not unloaded, refcount=3
RESMGR: Animation set file art/LeaderHeads/Peter_the_Great/peter_BG.kfm was not unloaded, refcount=2
RESMGR: Animation set file art/LeaderHeads/Saladin/saladin_BG.kfm was not unloaded, refcount=2
RESMGR: ---- Unloading ----

does that mean anything to anyone?

 

[Smeg]

your mom's.

c'mon, seriously? you're goign to hate on people like that. you tool.

my box is 5 mos old (yes, intel 8xx series) and while i'm not entirely geeked out on computers or games, i fully expected a new computer would run new games. where have YOU been the past 7 years? these aren't the dark ages of computers. you think compatibility issues at this stage of the tech game are normal? or should be acceptable?? the fact that consumers tire of these types of issues is exactly why PC gaming has suffered. people want out of the box satisfaction. not everyone wants to pay $2000 + for a computer anymore (why should we?? to play a few games??).

to answer the topic, my lousy intel 8xx did NOT render. not suprising since the intel site specifically says the chipset does not support T&L.

that said, if you get a new card (i got an fx5200), there may still be lingering issues (lag, choppy video, etc.) which could be card issue still or memory. who knows. the games sucks anyway. just wait.

This is rediculous. Anyone who has a clue will NOT expect a game on a 3D engine to run WELL on an FX video card or an INTEL video card.

It's common sense.

 

[Landmonitor]

I gave up on trying to get this game to work with my intel thing and just bought a PCI radeon 9250 (128 meg, I learned that the 256 meg one can't really take advantage of its memory since its bottlenecked by the PCI interface), it was REALLY cheap, barely more than the game cost. For anyone else who was unwise enough to buy a machine without an AGP slot, I would recommend this solution, as the 9250 is supposed to slightly outperform the NVIDIA 5200 at any rate and also that the 5200 seems to give Civ IV big problems...

I'm running a 2.4 GHz Celeron (I know! Leave me alone! I won't make this mistake again!) with 512 MB RAM, the radeon 9250, and the game runs fine with highest graphics settings and 1280 x 1024 resolution. Morale: A PCI video card IS good enough for this game (I'll still have to go to my friend's house to play BF2!). Also, to understate, this game is really good, and I can't ever play Civ III again!

Good luck guys.

 

[gunnerxtr]

I gave up on trying to get this game to work with my intel thing and just bought a PCI radeon 9250 (128 meg, I learned that the 256 meg one can't really take advantage of its memory since its bottlenecked by the PCI interface), it was REALLY cheap, barely more than the game cost. For anyone else who was unwise enough to buy a machine without an AGP slot, I would recommend this solution, as the 9250 is supposed to slightly outperform the NVIDIA 5200 at any rate and also that the 5200 seems to give Civ IV big problems...

I'm running a 2.4 GHz Celeron (I know! Leave me alone! I won't make this mistake again!) with 512 MB RAM, the radeon 9250, and the game runs fine with highest graphics settings and 1280 x 1024 resolution. Morale: A PCI video card IS good enough for this game (I'll still have to go to my friend's house to play BF2!). Also, to understate, this game is really good, and I can't ever play Civ III again!

Good luck guys.

which intel card was it?

 

[Landmonitor]

I have the 82865G, and I got cheshire cats and black terrain. The cheshire cats were pretty funny, but I wasn't a big fan of the terrain.

Also, I realize that people with laptops don't have the option of buying a super-low-end graphics card, but for people with AGPless desktops, don't get the 5200, get the 8250.

Also, go for Alphabet, then you're the only one who can trade techs! It rules!

 

[alamo]

Read for yourself the dirt on the latest Intel gfx chips

By default, the game requires a graphics adapter with hardware T&L (Transform and Lighting) support to run. Intel® graphics controllers do not support hardware T&L. Software T&L can be enabled using a setting in the game configuration file.

All Intel graphics will have problems with any serious use of T+L.