Intergalactic War

[Wolfe Tone]

I don't think Star Trek is been given enough credit. In ANH as they get to what was Alderaan, Han says something about the whole imperial fleet doesn't have enough fire power to destroy a planet. However in DS9, I think it was the Episode 'The Die is Cast' a small Romulan-Cardassian fleet (only Tal Shiar and Obsedian Order ships if I remember correctly) got very close to destroying what they thought was the Founder's home world. I remember something being said that the crust had been completely destroyed and the mantle wasn't too far behind. Now, if a very small portion of the Rom-Card fleet can do that the combined fire power of even the Federation fleet should have no problem matching the Imperial fleet.

 

[El_Machinae]

xpost with the above: do you have a quotation of Han, there? That would really mean something to me.

?StarTrek battles take place at stupidly close distances. If you watch the fight in Nemesis, they're really close. They measure distance in ST in kilometers, not more than that.

And the planetary shields in SW are stupidly powerful. The Hoth base had a shield that negated the StarDestroyer in orbit; and StarDestroyers can slag a planet in a few hours (in that, they can melt the top meter of an entire planet).

 

[brennan]

Babylon 5 would destroy them all

Fear these babys:

 

[El_Machinae]

IIRC: Babylon 5 planet busters were even more pathetic

 

[GoodEnoughForMe]

xpost with the above: do you have a quotation of Han, there? That would really mean something to me.

It's in Episode 4, when Kenobi mentions that Alderaan must have been destroyed.

I can't help but thinking though that Star Wars would beat Star Trek. Jedi and Sith would destroy any troops Star Trek threw at them. Up in space things would be more even. If the Yuzhan Vong were included in Star Wars though, they would win everything. They could terraform entire planets.

I'm not familiar with Stargate though.

 

[Warman17]

?StarTrek battles take place at stupidly close distances. If you watch the fight in Nemesis, they're really close. They measure distance in ST in kilometers, not more than that.
.

This is one case; not the norm. In most episodes of ST the ships will square off many thousands of kilometers.

http://st-v-sw.net/STSWwounded.html

Even the death star's main cannon's range of 77,000 km is not a match for a long-range bombardment.

 

[brennan]

The Old ones in B5 use technology millions of years old. The battleships are roughly comparable in size to SW/Trek ships. They carry main weapons that cut clean through similarly sized vessels like they were swiss cheese, phase in and out of hyperspace at will...

 

[nc-1701]

It's in Episode 4, when Kenobi mentions that Alderaan must have been destroyed.

I can't help but thinking though that Star Wars would beat Star Trek. Jedi and Sith would destroy any troops Star Trek threw at them. Up in space things would be more even. If the Yuzhan Vong were included in Star Wars though, they would win everything. They could terraform entire planets.

I'm not familiar with Stargate though.

Yuzhan Vong would make excellent drones... Seriously they have no shields so the Borg just beam over en masse and assimilate to their hearts content.

 

[GoodEnoughForMe]

Yuzhan Vong would make excellent drones... Seriously they have no shields so the Borg just beam over en masse and assimilate to their hearts content.

I am sure they would have some biological defense for that.

Seriously, in Voyager, they flew one ship through an entire Borg base thing, and blew the whole thing up.

Then again, Voyager was crazy like that.

 

[bhsup]

Can we add the Dr. Who universe into this as well? Daleks, Cybermen, and Time Lords, oh my!

 

[Wolfe Tone]

xpost with the above: do you have a quotation of Han, there? That would really mean something to me.

I don't have my DVDs handy at the moment, but I got the quote online, I'm not sure if it entirely accurate.

Han: "No, the entire Imperial fleet couldn't have done this. It would take a
thousand ships massing a lot more firepower than has ever existed."

 

[nc-1701]

I am sure they would have some biological defense for that.

Seriously, in Voyager, they flew one ship through an entire Borg base thing, and blew the whole thing up.

Then again, Voyager was crazy like that.

Who did Species 8472? How do you plan on stopping them anyway? Their ships are vastly stronger than anything you can throw at them, and in personal combat they are nearly invincible.

 

[bhsup]

IIRC: Babylon 5 planet busters were even more pathetic

THe Shadow planet busters were cloud-like thingies with nukes in them. The nukes would burrow into the planet and wreck the planet from the inside out, making it uninhabitable. Vorlon planet busters were sheer energy weapons, but it is never conclusively proven/shown that the planet is completely destroyed or whether it is simply made uninhabitable. They do once say "it's gone" in reference to a planet that the Vorlons attacked, but never actually seeing one blow up I'd still hestitate to claim it is literally blown up.

Still, I think the Ancients and Asgard could deal just fine with the Old Ones of Bab 5. Especially with the Nox to hide their fleets and whatnot.

 

[El_Machinae]

Wolfe:Ah, but that's blowing the entire planet to pieces. But you're probably right. The Death Star output so much destruction in that shot, that even if they harnessed 100% matter/antimatter fuel, the mass of the fuel would have been amazing.

VRWCAgent: what's one of the most impressive pieces of destruction done in the Stargate universe, and how does it compare to 'standard' ships of that reality?

 

[nc-1701]

Wolfe:Ah, but that's blowing the entire planet to pieces. But you're probably right. The Death Star output so much destruction in that shot, that even if they harnessed 100% matter/antimatter fuel, the mass of the fuel would have been amazing.

VRWCAgent: what's one of the most impressive pieces of destruction done in the Stargate universe, and how does it compare to 'standard' ships of that reality?

Based on references from the movies we conclusively know that the Empire uses fusion reactors for their power. Severely limiting their output.

 

[bhsup]

Well, the Ancients had warships that could toe to toe with anything else, but it was a numbers problem with them. Their city was able to hold off dozens of Wraith hive ships, but again it was simply a numbers problem. Too many of the enemy to ever actually defeat.

Now Anubis was tracking down some artifacts that would have made his ship pretty much unstoppable. As it was, it could hold its own against dozens of Goa'uld Hataks (think main battleship) just fine as well as cause massive surface damage to planets. I kind of got the feeling that with the artifacts it was a planet killer with no equal probably.

The Ori battleships are just...WOW. The most impressive, however, in sheer coolness, was when the Asgard placed an entire planet in a different space-time bubble so time went slower there. They then caused a black hole to form (or was it already there???) to slowly destroy the planet.

 

[El_Machinae]

Based on references from the movies we conclusively know that the Empire uses fusion reactors for their power. Severely limiting their output.

I dunno if they solely use fusion; I don't really know.
Their capacitors, though, could be anything.

 

[Wolfe Tone]

Wolfe:Ah, but that's blowing the entire planet to pieces. But you're probably right. The Death Star output so much destruction in that shot, that even if they harnessed 100% matter/antimatter fuel, the mass of the fuel would have been amazing.

I done a little more checking There were only 20 Warbirds and Keldons that attacked the Founders planet, and the planets mantle would be destroyed in 5 hours. Not nearly as quick as the death star. But I would say that this at least puts Keldons and Warbirds on equal footing with Star Destroyers, although it would be my opinion that the Keldons and Warbirds are more powerful.

 

[Yuri2356]

I don't have my DVDs handy at the moment, but I got the quote online, I'm not sure if it entirely accurate.

Han: "No, the entire Imperial fleet couldn't have done this. It would take a
thousand ships massing a lot more firepower than has ever existed."

Yet, later on, General Dodonna informs the rebel pilots who about to fly off in a desperate attempt to destroy the Death Star, that is carries a firepower "Greater than Half the Starfleet".

The DS Superlaser weilds energies in excess of 10^32 Joules. (The gravitational binding energy of an Earth-like Planet) Now, supposing for a lower limit that the Deathstar's power simply equals that of their entire navy, we devide this by the earlier stated number of Star Destroyers (25 000) and get 4 * 10^27 Joules. (That's 956 million gigatons) The closer we go to Deathstar = Half the Fleet, the higer that number gets. Even if each ship could only apply 1% of that energy to their weapons, that still gives them millions of Gigatons of firepower, to Trek's Kilo/Mega figures.

Who do you think is a more reliable source regarding the strength of the Imperial navy - A Smuggler having an immediate reaction to seeing an asteroid field where there was once a planet, or a General who is preparing his soldiers for battle?

Or, we could just stick with demonstrated Imperial Firepower like Base-Delta-Zero operations, Numerous asteroid destructions, Scaling down the Power/Volume ratio of the Death Star to the size of more common warships. It all leads to immense firepower on the Side of Wars.

This is one case; not the norm. In most episodes of ST the ships will square off many thousands of kilometers.

http://st-v-sw.net/STSWwounded.html

Even the death star's main cannon's range of 77,000 km is not a match for a long-range bombardment.

In response to anything you try to cite from Mister Anderson's website, I counter by directing you to Mister Wong's:

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/index.html

Read thuroughly under "Technology" and "Tactics" to see his appraisals of the Two sides present, and under "Hate Mail" to see his arguments with Mister Anderson. You should find the results most enlightening.

 

[El_Machinae]

Yet, later on, General Dodonna informs the rebel pilots who about to fly off in a desperate attempt to destroy the Death Star, that is carries a firepower "Greater than Half the Starfleet".

I would imagine that this is merely a comparison of the number of turbolaser batteries. You cannot really compare the superlaser to anything else, powerwise. Plus, it's not hard to imagine that the Death Star contains over one-third of the Empire's turbolasers.