Intergalactic War

[Wolfe Tone]

Yet, later on, General Dodonna informs the rebel pilots who about to fly off in a desperate attempt to destroy the Death Star, that is carries a firepower "Greater than Half the Starfleet".

The DS Superlaser weilds energies in excess of 10^32 Joules. (The gravitational binding energy of an Earth-like Planet) Now, supposing for a lower limit that the Deathstar's power simply equals that of their entire navy, we devide this by the earlier stated number of Star Destroyers (25 000) and get 4 * 10^27 Joules. (That's 956 million gigatons) The closer we go to Deathstar = Half the Fleet, the higer that number gets. Even if each ship could only apply 1% of that energy to their weapons, that still gives them millions of Gigatons of firepower, to Trek's Kilo/Mega figures.

Who do you think is a more reliable source regarding the strength of the Imperial navy - A Smuggler having an immediate reaction to seeing an asteroid field where there was once a planet, or a General who is preparing his soldiers for battle?

Or, we could just stick with demonstrated Imperial Firepower like Base-Delta-Zero operations, Numerous asteroid destructions, Scaling down the Power/Volume ratio of the Death Star to the size of more common warships. It all leads to immense firepower on the Side of Wars.



In response to anything you try to cite from Mister Anderson's website, I counter by directing you to Mister Wong's:

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/index.html

Read thuroughly under "Technology" and "Tactics" to see his appraisals of the Two sides present, and under "Hate Mail" to see his arguments with Mister Anderson. You should find the results most enlightening.

Do we have any numbers on the size of the Imperial Fleet? SWvsST estimates it at 25,000. I think that if 20 Rom-Card ships can match what the death star can do in 5 hrs. 12,500 Rom Card ships should easily be able to wipe about a planet pretty sharpish.

 

[nc-1701]

Yet, later on, General Dodonna informs the rebel pilots who about to fly off in a desperate attempt to destroy the Death Star, that is carries a firepower "Greater than Half the Starfleet".

The DS Superlaser weilds energies in excess of 10^32 Joules. (The gravitational binding energy of an Earth-like Planet) Now, supposing for a lower limit that the Deathstar's power simply equals that of their entire navy, we devide this by the earlier stated number of Star Destroyers (25 000) and get 4 * 10^27 Joules. (That's 956 million gigatons) The closer we go to Deathstar = Half the Fleet, the higer that number gets. Even if each ship could only apply 1% of that energy to their weapons, that still gives them millions of Gigatons of firepower, to Trek's Kilo/Mega figures.

Who do you think is a more reliable source regarding the strength of the Imperial navy - A Smuggler having an immediate reaction to seeing an asteroid field where there was once a planet, or a General who is preparing his soldiers for battle?

Well let's reverse your logic it took eight Species 8472 Bio-Ships to form their planet killer. Assuming that planet is the same as Aldaaran or atleast requires a similar amount of to destroy then we get the total output of each Bio-Ship as 1.25x10^31joules or 3,125 times as powerfull as an ISD, thats 2,987,500 million gigatons.

Might I also add that we saw Voyager survive a hit from one of these without signifigant damage so we know Voyager should be able to survive a direct volley from 3,125 ISDs.

Resistance is Futile...

 

[El_Machinae]

8472 doesn't have near the output of the Death Star; their planet killers are impressive, but it's nowhere near the same scale. I wish that scene was on YouTube

Melting the surface is a durned sight different than blowing up the planet.
And, outside of the borg, I don't think that any major species in StarTrek measures their ships using 'thousands'

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

Yet, later on, General Dodonna informs the rebel pilots who about to fly off in a desperate attempt to destroy the Death Star, that is carries a firepower "Greater than Half the Starfleet".

The DS Superlaser weilds energies in excess of 10^32 Joules. (The gravitational binding energy of an Earth-like Planet) Now, supposing for a lower limit that the Deathstar's power simply equals that of their entire navy, we devide this by the earlier stated number of Star Destroyers (25 000) and get 4 * 10^27 Joules. (That's 956 million gigatons) The closer we go to Deathstar = Half the Fleet, the higer that number gets. Even if each ship could only apply 1% of that energy to their weapons, that still gives them millions of Gigatons of firepower, to Trek's Kilo/Mega figures.

Who do you think is a more reliable source regarding the strength of the Imperial navy - A Smuggler having an immediate reaction to seeing an asteroid field where there was once a planet, or a General who is preparing his soldiers for battle?

Or, we could just stick with demonstrated Imperial Firepower like Base-Delta-Zero operations, Numerous asteroid destructions, Scaling down the Power/Volume ratio of the Death Star to the size of more common warships. It all leads to immense firepower on the Side of Wars.



In response to anything you try to cite from Mister Anderson's website, I counter by directing you to Mister Wong's:

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/index.html

Read thuroughly under "Technology" and "Tactics" to see his appraisals of the Two sides present, and under "Hate Mail" to see his arguments with Mister Anderson. You should find the results most enlightening.

And you're only counting the Imperial Star Destroyers! We can't forget the SSDs, the Victorys, and the whole manner of lesser ships: Dreadnoughts, Corvettes, Frigates, Cruisers, and starfighters, there are many more of them than there are ISDs in the Imperial Navy.

 

[Yuri2356]

Do we have any numbers on the size of the Imperial Fleet? SWvsST estimates it at 25,000. I think that if 20 Rom-Card ships can match what the death star can do in 5 hrs. 12,500 Rom Card ships should easily be able to wipe about a planet pretty sharpish.

The problem is that Most Trek weapons are shown to operate via some sort of freaky chain-reaction that breaks down matter on the atomic level. While this can up their effective firepower against solid objects, it also means that performance varries greatly between different target materials, and that the raw energy they put into a target isn't near those levels.

Well let's reverse your logic it took eight Species 8472 Bio-Ships to form their planet killer. Assuming that planet is the same as Aldaaran or atleast requires a similar amount of to destroy then we get the total output of each Bio-Ship as 1.25x10^31joules or 3,125 times as powerfull as an ISD, thats 2,987,500 million gigatons.

Might I also add that we saw Voyager survive a hit from one of these without signifigant damage so we know Voyager should be able to survive a direct volley from 3,125 ISDs.

Resistance is Futile...

The 8472 planetkiller did not destroy the planet through raw firepower. Such is evidenced by the fact that the planet did not explode until seconds after they had ceased firing. Numerous Trek weapons have shown themselves to be exotic in nature, drawing a great deal of their destructive power the target itself.

And you're only counting the Imperial Star Destroyers! We can't forget the SSDs, the Victorys, and the whole manner of lesser ships: Dreadnoughts, Corvettes, Frigates, Cruisers, and starfighters, there are many more of them than there are ISDs in the Imperial Navy.

So use a fleet number One hundred times that, or a thousand times, and you still get Low million/High Thousand Gigaton values for the average vessel.

Even, this argumet exists more as a way to counter those who insist on taking quotes (like Han's) literally. The more serious observations produce plain old Multi-Gigaton values for ship's weapons.

 

[nc-1701]

8472 doesn't have near the output of the Death Star; their planet killers are impressive, but it's nowhere near the same scale. I wish that scene was on YouTube

Melting the surface is a durned sight different than blowing up the planet.
And, outside of the borg, I don't think that any major species in StarTrek measures their ships using 'thousands'

In the scene the planet melts, ad then starts to breakup. We don't see the end of the process, but we do see huge chunks come off, and destroy a number of Borg ships that didn't move fast enough.

Also Species 8472 has thousands upon thousends of these little buggers.

If it was just the Federation you could probably win, but Species 8472 and the Borg are virtually unstoppable.

 

[El_Machinae]

Oh, I agree that 8472 is a balance-tipper.

 

[Masquerouge]

This thread is getting better and better.

What about man-to-man combat? Can anybody from Trek and Gate fight a Jedi and win?

 

[nc-1701]

This thread is getting better and better.

What about man-to-man combat? Can anybody from Trek and Gate fight a Jedi and win?

From gate Adria could, from Trek a Species 8472 could easily wipe the deck with any sort of wimpy Jedi. These things can walk around on the outside of a spaceship man Then physically tear a hole in the hull so that they may enter...

 

[Masquerouge]

From gate Adria could, from Trek a Species 8472 could easily wipe the deck with any sort of wimpy Jedi. These things can walk around on the outside of a spaceship man Then physically tear a hole in the hull so that they may enter...

But it's not all about physical strength. You can lift an X-wing with the force!

 

[Yuri2356]

From gate Adria could, from Trek a Species 8472 could easily wipe the deck with any sort of wimpy Jedi. These things can walk around on the outside of a spaceship man Then physically tear a hole in the hull so that they may enter...

Star Wars infantry have tactical nuclear weapons that can fit in the palm of your hand. (See - Thermal Detonators) I'd like to see any living thing survive something equivalent to a few tons of TNT.

And, As Masq said, the Force can do some rather nasty things to a person, if given the chance.

 

[El_Machinae]

Oh, hand-to-hand StarWars sucks, bigtime. But most things seem to suck just as much

 

[bhsup]

Alright, the Stargate universe is taking place in our time frame. That means Jack Bauer is available as well as Colonel/General O'Neill. Come on you tunnel vision Star Wars fanboys, when are you going to realize that the Stargate universe would wipe the floor with storm trooper arse?

 

[Masquerouge]

Alright, the Stargate universe is taking place in our time frame. That means Jack Bauer is available as well as Colonel/General O'Neill. Come on you tunnel vision Star Wars fanboys, when are you going to realize that the Stargate universe would wipe the floor with storm trooper arse?

Well there's a good probability that Chuck Norris is a Jedi and so would fight on the Star Wars side

 

[Evil Tyrant]

Star Wars infantry have tactical nuclear weapons that can fit in the palm of your hand. (See - Thermal Detonators) I'd like to see any living thing survive something equivalent to a few tons of TNT.

If these are the same infantry that can't win a battle against a race of stone age midgets, the only thing that would worry me about them having tactical nukes the size of grenades would be that they blow themselves up before my army has a chance to fight them.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Id pick Star Trek, merely because the Federation and Starfleet are coherent and well organized. In a head to head battle, the best organized side almost always wins, especially when significantly outnumbered. The less organized side mistakenly sees strength in numbers, and weakens itself even further as a result. The Stargate and Star Wars sides have big scary ships, and villains with deep echoey voices but that doesnt amount to ___ in a fight. The SW Empire might last a little longer, but Starfleet would barely work up a sweat knocking them out of the ring. Compared to the Borg, the SW Empire is a friggin joke.

 

[Masquerouge]

If these are the same infantry that can't win a battle against a race of stone age midgets, the only thing that would worry me about them having tactical nukes the size of grenades would be that they blow themselves up before my army has a chance to fight them.

I hate to say it, but you've got a point... though now you've just said Star Wars has probably the best fighters: the Ewoks. These guys can defeat a vastly superior, incredibly more technologically advanced army!

 

[nc-1701]

Star Wars infantry have tactical nuclear weapons that can fit in the palm of your hand. (See - Thermal Detonators) I'd like to see any living thing survive something equivalent to a few tons of TNT.

And, As Masq said, the Force can do some rather nasty things to a person, if given the chance.

Ever heard of Photon Grenades? Their the exact same thing, but used by the Federation. Not to mention that the can be beamed in just before they beam in the troops...

As for Stargate the Goa'uld would die immediatly as the Federation/Klingons/Romulans wiped their ass. The Asgard/Ori would be much more difficult, but would die because of lack of numbers as Bio-Ships/Borg swarmed them. The Replicators would give the Borg a run for their money, but would eventualy be assimilated into the collective.

 

[Alan Bradely]

Something missing form this discussion is more information on the scenario used to pit the empires against each other. We should decide how they start fighting each other, as that affects things greatly. I'd presume the Star Gaters would be the one to fly to the Star Wars galaxy, as they can cross intergalactic space in minutes, and the Trekers would find a wormhole to the Star wars folks. This of course gives the Gaters first strike advantage...

 

[ulsterman88]

Stargate wins hands down although i never watched Star Trek so i cant judge them.