Intro to Deity Domination & Timing Attacks

[Mr. Shadows]

Are you suggesting there are viable naval timing attacks? These haven't been discussed yet in this thread. I believe most players are using maps with continents (often Pangaea or other one continent maps like Inland Sea), so naval units don't seem that important. I have been able to move embarked units from one continent to another without significant harassment ftom the AI Civs, so I haven't built naval units beyond those needed for a few Eurekas/Inspirations.

Naval units are perfectly capable of laying siege and taking down a city, but there are far fewer coastal cities to take. You will (eventually) want a navy on continents (my prefered map type) but they have a drastically reduced role as conpared to V. It doesn't make sense to build a huge navy because most cities are one or more tiles inland. Battleships are a bit more useful because of their 3 tile range, but even still they aren't likely to make or break you.

 

[trojan13]

Are you suggesting there are viable naval timing attacks? These haven't been discussed yet in this thread. I believe most players are using maps with continents (often Pangaea or other one continent maps like Inland Sea), so naval units don't seem that important. I have been able to move embarked units from one continent to another without significant harassment ftom the AI Civs, so I haven't built naval units beyond those needed for a few Eurekas/Inspirations.

It is really up to map type. If you are playing snowflake or island plate, then naval units can do defense and offense with very minimal armies (to finish cities one tile away from coast). Quadreme > Frigate is fine in such maps. Battleship is beast

 

[Machiavelli24]

From the start there's obviously a 20-30 turn window of opportunity for Sumeria, but after that things turn around quickly.

To continue off this, the AI swings back and forth between vulnerable and powerful based on when they have Oligarchy (+4 Strength for melee units). Deity AI's generate culture so fast that they will get Oligarchy very quickly. Between that and walls it will often shut down any ancient era attack that doesn't used ranged units (because ranged units can still generate favorable HP exchanges even when fighting at a strength disadvantage).

But once the AI's progress to their tier 2 governments they will be vulnerable again. This usually won't happen until after a Horseman or Swordsman attack can starts, but a Knight attack can be late enough to start after Oligarchy.

Are you suggesting there are viable naval timing attacks? These haven't been discussed yet in this thread.

The main use for naval units is part of the game-ending capital snipe. For every AI with a coastal capital, build a few battle ships and send them to position. Once the non-coastal capitals are captured send all the navies in. They don't have to be able to clear the area around the capital or hold onto it. They just have to capture it for one turn.

 

[DontTread]

Do you use battering rams and seige towers for most attacks on cities? I run into a problem in almost every game where I can't conquer cities because of the walls. What do I need to do to help me here?

 

[diamond geezer]

I also agree that the Horsemen Timing attack is weakened by the requirement to connect two Horse strategic tiles. One Horse tile and an Encampment is weaker, because every city that builds Horsemen will need an encampment. Horsemen are most definitely optimal, assuming one beelined Horseback Riding and got two Horse tiles improved shortly afterward. Their 4 tile movement and 35 strength will not be beat for an Era or two.

And OFC if you're Tomyris... As was said, War Carts are great, but once you get through those first few turns Tom overtakes Gil like a Ferrari passes a Fiat.

Do you use battering rams and seige towers for most attacks on cities? I run into a problem in almost every game where I can't conquer cities because of the walls. What do I need to do to help me here?

As soon as I see walls I get a Battering Ram; it does the job. I tried Siege Towers, but they come too late and require too much effort. I now skip them and go for Cats and then the Upgrades.

 

[ShinigamiKenji]

As soon as I see walls I get a Battering Ram; it does the job. I tried Siege Towers, but they come too late and require too much effort. I now skip them and go for Cats and then the Upgrades.

Also, when you use Rams, your unit directly damages the wall. Once it's down, it won't shoot at you anymore, and you can more or less take it leisurely (I say more or less because it'll still produce troops). Same goes for Catapults and its upgrades.

 

[sugerdady87]

And OFC if you're Tomyris... As was said, War Carts are great, but once you get through those first few turns Tom overtakes Gil like a Ferrari passes a Fiat.


As soon as I see walls I get a Battering Ram; it does the job. I tried Siege Towers, but they come too late and require too much effort. I now skip them and go for Cats and then the Upgrades.

Agreed. Cats are definitely the way to go. Admittedly, I've never tried siege towers. Perhaps we should try a no ranged units game.

 

[ShinigamiKenji]

Agreed. Cats are definitely the way to go. Admittedly, I've never tried siege towers. Perhaps we should try a no ranged units game.

You mean going Sumeria and using War Carts instead of Archers. Yep, I've already done it, I skipped Archers completely simply because I went War Carts > Horsemen > Knights > Cavalry.

I say Siege Towers might be good, but only if your current melee unit strength at least matches the wall strength (for example, Knights attacking Ancient Walls). At least they never obsolete, meaning you can do the same with Cavalry and Medieval Walls.

 

[diamond geezer]

Also, when you use Rams, your unit directly damages the wall. Once it's down, it won't shoot at you anymore, and you can more or less take it leisurely (I say more or less because it'll still produce troops). Same goes for Catapults and its upgrades.

Yes, bringing down the walls is the key thing in my experience - it means my ranged units can attack the city without reprisals on the AIs turn, so the melee units can rest up and recover, ready to move onto the next.

 

[Forster]

Five or six war carts can do a hell of a lot of damage to a city with ancient walls. Add some archers and they can be a threat to the next level. When Tomyris or horse barb, I try to produce some spearmen, they do wonders for your morale. If you are Trajan, legions can hurt most anything?

 

[ShinigamiKenji]

Five or six war carts can do a hell of a lot of damage to a city with ancient walls. Add some archers and they can be a threat to the next level. When Tomyris or horse barb, I try to produce some spearmen, they do wonders for your morale. If you are Trajan, legions can hurt most anything?

They lose to Varu in a 1vs1 because of the Varu's -5 combat penalty to adjacent enemy units. But Legions cost less to produce and can be upgraded from Warriors.

 

[Forster]

I always try to have 3 legions together.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Archer timings can definitely be used offensively on deity (city states or nearby AI). Swords are pretty bad in MP but AI doesn't block + lock down attack paths as much so a great general + swords + battering ram or later upgrades with siege engines can really trash the AI.

I did a run where I was bored and spent the entire game just running around with gradually upgrading basic melee units, even this will work on deity right now:



Always amusing to use rams/engines in late game.