Invisible Game Elements

[tedhebert]

There is anarchy in this game???

You learn something every day!!

yeah I've over 2000 hours in the game, and only learnt about that last month...

Personally, Tourism is so badly implemented as far as understanding where it comes from that I just shy away from CV all the time. Even the great modders with great products (ie: Better Report Screen) have difficulty clearly showing it, which tells me that's it's a totally opaque system even from the APIs point of view... And the CV tab in the UI gives totally confusing information as far as how close or far you are from the goal. One turn you're at 20 turns from a win, the next you're at 85... the next it doesn't even give you a number. it's rather shameful IMHO

Also, on the maintenance subject. Gold is one thing, but I've always felt that the penalty for not having the strategics to pay maintenance is way too low. Not being able to heal is lame, but it's not enough. There should come a point where you lose units.

 

[MisterBoomBoom]

Tourism is such a pain in the tookus it makes the Cultural win a frustrating cluster. It is the one thing they really need to fix and make it clear and transparent and concise on one dang screen. Yes, I know how to figure the maths etc...but WHY!? Pain in the tookus factor really high on this one. How many turns do I really have left in this dang cultural game...

The other thing that provides so much useless info that it turns it into a virtually worthless mechanic is the gossip/news.

 

[DrCron]

Usually Immortal, though I've played plenty on Deity. Max I've been down was -5 from war weariness in a single city. I didn't quite understand why that single city had that much war weariness. Iirc, I just ignored it.

I never went on a snowball world conquest.

Oh, ok, it's definitely not an issue without long wars, but I think that makes perfect sense. And yes, that -5 will go to more cities if you stay at war longer. Which cities are more affected depends on many factors, but an obvious one is that cities originally founded by the player you are currently at war with will get more of it. If you ever go for a domination game you'll definitely notice it. It's very hard to keep a city happy with that -5. which means you'll lose the production bonus (which is always useful).

 

[kaspergm]

The complete lack of transparency in how cultural victory works is one of the big mysteries in the design of this game. I mean in Civ5, it was extremely simple and intuitive: Accumulate more tourism than their combined culture, and you dominate them. While in Civ6, there are all kind of mysterious numbers with visiting tourist and outgoing tourists and I know not what, and it's never clear how these numbers are calculated. I remember someone (probably Victoria) made a long investigation of it once, and I was just as confused after reading it as I was before.

 

[Lord Lakely]

I believe Tourism accumulates at like... 1 for every 100 points per culture a tile has earned over time?. This includes and Great Works, Relics and buildings (Walls, Shopping Malls, Stadiums, etc) placed on the tile. Religious tourism is generated by Faith. The number on top of your screen indicates the speed at which you fill this number (so if it's 48, you earn 0.48 tourism every turn)

Something like that. God who knows. CV is the prosopagnosia of game mechanics.

 

[Zaarin]

Anarchy - How many hours did you play before you realised this is a thing? One of the things I like the least in the game are the free changes of policy/governments. I think changing governments should always cost 1-2 turns of anarchy to the Human player (leave the poor AI alone). (excluding perhaps the first).

I know this is a thing that exists, but I have never once felt the need to return to a government after I left it.

Paying to Unlock Policies - It's a button that exists. Imo I should only get free policy changes after changing governments (since this should already have an anarchy cost) or unlocking the first civic of a new era. It's both too easy and repetitive. (Human player)

This is useful on a very rare occasion if you have the gold to spend.

Free Cities - They are there... kinda. Free Cities never last very long. They should imo have +15 base Loyalty. Automatically at war only with the Civ from whom it defected. Other Civs can send trade routes to Free Cities, causing extra loyalty pressure for each trade route. Amani's Emissary Promotion grants +5 Loyalty to your Civ when established in a Free City.

To be fair, I've actually seen stable clusters of Free Cities; I just wish they could act more like civs when that happens.

I believe Tourism accumulates at like... 1 for every 100 points per culture a tile has earned over time?. This includes and Great Works, Relics and buildings (Walls, Shopping Malls, Stadiums, etc) placed on the tile. Religious tourism is generated by Faith. The number on top of your screen indicates the speed at which you fill this number (so if it's 48, you earn 0.48 tourism every turn)

Something like that. God who knows. CV is the prosopagnosia of game mechanics.

Thank you for explaining that. I literally had no idea what that number meant.

 

[Datian]

Great people and traders can suffer too, if they're near a nuclear plant leak (learned that the hard way) : they suddenly get a hit points bar.

 

[JJOne]

This is a discussion about game elements which are currently in the game but that are nearly invisible due to how they have been implemented.

Some of the changes suggested below could also be attributed to higher difficulties.

Anarchy - How many hours did you play before you realised this is a thing? One of the things I like the least in the game are the free changes of policy/governments. I think changing governments should always cost 1-2 turns of anarchy to the Human player (leave the poor AI alone). (excluding perhaps the first).

Paying to Unlock Policies - It's a button that exists. Imo I should only get free policy changes after changing governments (since this should already have an anarchy cost) or unlocking the first civic of a new era. It's both too easy and repetitive. (Human player)

War Weariness - I don't think I've ever even noticed this whether I'm warmongering or not. It seems like whatever impact it's supposed to have, it's not doing it adequately.

Free Cities - They are there... kinda. Free Cities never last very long. They should imo have +15 base Loyalty. Automatically at war only with the Civ from whom it defected. Other Civs can send trade routes to Free Cities, causing extra loyalty pressure for each trade route. Amani's Emissary Promotion grants +5 Loyalty to your Civ when established in a Free City.

---

What other game elements are in the game which are barely noticeable?

Anarchy - I didn't know that was a thing! Still remember judging the best moment of changing governments if I didn't have a golden age in Civ 4.
Paying to Unlock Policies - I use it a few times every game. For example if you get an unplanned war oportunity (like an emergency between AI civs), it is cheaper to slot the +50% pillage now than to wait for the free change. Or if you have poor culture, it seems to benefit to switch the diplo card for "first envoy counts twice" just one turn before the free policy change where you change back.
War Weariness - same as you. Maybe it has some happiness impact which influences production or food, but it's not "in your face" like the angry faces from civ 4.
Free cities - They are in every game, I wouldn't call them invisible, and quite a few times they stabilize as a cluster of free cities. They annoy you when conquering another civ, they are an opportunity for diplo favor if you're far away... or for keeping if you're the cause for flipping. But I would love it if they would make a civilization after x turns free. (Like: We are the french people of Los Angeles, nice to meet you!)

New ones:
Selling resources after mid game - In the beginning selling resources is really important. But in the middle of the game you tend to have so much income, so that selling resources seems like a micromanagement from hell for ... maybe 5% of your gpt?
Changing city focus - I don't use it... If I want production or growth in that one city, I will lock some citizens manually. But otherwise the AI does a good enough job.

The other way around, so visible they are annoying: AI demands. Every second turn after you're denounced they pop up. I couldn't find any reason whatsoever to accept one.

 

[MrRadar]

Anarchy - How many hours did you play before you realised this is a thing?

0 hours. I was following pre-release videos and info
And I avoided anarchy ever since. Never felt the need to go to some previous government, tbh. Yes, it is pretty much irrelevant.

Paying to Unlock Policies - It's a button that exists. Imo I should only get free policy changes after changing governments (since this should already have an anarchy cost) or unlocking the first civic of a new era. It's both too easy and repetitive. (Human player)

I know this button since the release, and I may have used it once since the release. Maybe twice. When I was too forgetful to change my policies during routine free opportunity. You're right, some changes should be in order. Either government and policy changes should have some run-in period, or anarchy, or associated running costs. Now it is just too easy to arrange for free change opportunities. On faster game speeds this button is completely irrelevant, maybe on Epic and Marathon it could be somewhat useful.

War Weariness - I don't think I've ever even noticed this whether I'm warmongering or not. It seems like whatever impact it's supposed to have, it's not doing it adequately.
?

When I'm at war, I check the third reports tab regularly. It is, by far, the most transparent of the three, the first two being the definition of painful nightmare while looking for relevant info. But the current war weariness can be checked relatively easily and when it begins to go into cumulative -30 and more, there may be some slight production problems. Or loyalty problems due to unhappiness. If you plan and organise your wars as efficient blitzkriegs, you won't get that, but if your wars become very protracted, you'll feel some effects. But war should bring more serious consequences. Maybe units should require some food upkeep during wartime? To retain full combat strenght?

Free Cities - They are there... kinda. Free Cities never last very long. They should imo have +15 base Loyalty. Automatically at war only with the Civ from whom it defected. Other Civs can send trade routes to Free Cities, causing extra loyalty pressure for each trade route. Amani's Emissary Promotion grants +5 Loyalty to your Civ when established in a Free City.

That depends. I saw up to four cities break into Free cities and form contiguous territory. Like lawless barbaric no man lands. That looked cool. It would be even cooler, if they could form a new nation, if left alone long enough, but knowledgeable people on this forum said it was rather complicated from the coding side. So I think that although something could be done to make them more interesting, it is not among the most pressing priorities.

I will use the opportunity to interpret the title of this thread very literally and will say that:

a) the remaining running time of all your trade routes is completely invisible, UI won't tell you that
b) the projected running time in turns of your new trade routes is completely invisible, UI won't tell you that (in fact, it will shamelessly mislead you)
a) and b) are kinda important for Reform the Coinage dedication
c) luxuries that you or AI really need are completely invisible in the deal screen, UI won't tell you that (without extra painful effort)
d) once a deal ends, your former trading partner and all the deal details, as well as the very fact of the end of the deal are completely invisible, UI won't tell you that
e) when you change policies, their effect is completely invisible (UI won't tell you that) until you confirm, so no comparison of different options is possible, therefore some potentially useful policies may remain overlooked for ages
f) and so on...
Firaxis, please, add adequate User Interface to Civ 6. It's been almost 4 painful years already.

 

[AntSou]

Changing city focus - I don't use it... If I want production or growth in that one city, I will lock some citizens manually. But otherwise the AI does a good enough job.

I disagree with you there. I use that a lot!

Maybe units should require some food upkeep during wartime? To retain full combat strenght?

This would single handedly make food and housing and farms more meaningful. (Though, again, I'd exclude the AI from these requirements).

the remaining running time of all your trade routes is completely invisible, UI won't tell you that

I use a mod for that. I had forgotten about it.

 

[cain3456]

If you people want anarchy, go back to Civ3. Nine turn anarchies, what fun.

 

[Josephias]

For starters, just agreement with the OP, altough I think in some cases it is moreless fine as it is.

Anarchy - Anarchy is probably a boring thing in a game you play as the rules. I tend to agree with the game policy of letting you the first government change to be anarchy free (representing evolution of government rather than change), but I would agree ONLY the first government of a tier does not bring anarchy, but changing government inside a tier (or to a lower tier) does. (i.e, you could change your old-ways classical republic to a Monarchy without anarchy, but you would not be able to change this Monarchy to a Merchant republic or a Teocracy without).

Paying to Unlock Policies - We've trained to wait the 2-3 turns remaining for a civic for policy change (indeed, we might not change policies if not for civic changes in some games). If you want to force the use of this button I would suggest the following: the only "free" civic changes are those due to the new civic unlocked (either the new cards provided by the civic, or the slots that become free because a civic has been obsoleted). All other cards should be "locked", and you should pay the price to enable them.

War Weariness - It is noticeable, but barely, as all "happines" mechanics have low impact on Civ VI (especially compared to Civ V), but if you are warring you'll enough and you open the city report from time to time, you'll notice the change. I agree with some posters it should be more visual for you to care about.

Free Cities - I agree with @Naeshar "free cities" are not meant to last long. Free cities by themselves are dull. Unless you devise a mechanic to convert them into City States with a random (or semi-random) Suzerainity bonus. It might be cool if civs CUAs/UIs/UUs could be break down into several suzerainity bonus that are assigned to a city that breaks from the empire and lasts X turns without switching to other civ.

And adding...

Appeal - I would not say it is "invisible", but I agree with @Solver it is underused. Partially, as commented, due to neighbourhoods not being as necessary as maybe planned. A potential option (link to another invisible system) is to tie it with happines (ammenities), so if you are working low-appeal tiles you get a certain happines penalty, and high appeal tiles have either a happines or a production bonus (identifieng the "conditions" of the workers in these tiles).

Maintenance - I won't say maintenance is not noticeable, but as long as you have not a big military or slot the military maintenance reduction card it is true it does not hurt much. And you can normally slot the military maintenance reduction cards because most military cards are too-production focused, and you are not building that much military. In that sense, I think the red military cards have normally much less dilemma to manage than the cards of other colors. Additional cards with effects on loyalty / public order might be interesting.

 

[criZp]

Tourism and war weariness are the worst for me. Appeal has the potential to be more interesting. How religious pressure converts to religious followers isn't really described (but I think a mod can do it)

 

[wesplaysciv]

If we want to broaden this to talk about UI more generally, I think it is poor design that when you reassign a governor, you get a notification (you just did it and it took 4 clicks, so why does a notification pop up on the side), but when an enemy religiously converts your city, you are never really told. In the latter action, that affects your cities output / capabilities and would allow you to declare a holy war.

 

[Myomoto]

If we want to broaden this to talk about UI more generally, I think it is poor design that when you reassign a governor, you get a notification (you just did it and it took 4 clicks, so why does a notification pop up on the side), but when an enemy religiously converts your city, you are never really told. In the latter action, that affects your cities output / capabilities and would allow you to declare a holy war.

How about you not getting any notification when your trade deal with another civ expires? The UI for trading with other civs is horrendous, and I have no idea what they were trying with the latest update that lets you drag the trade offer windows slightly bigger

 

[AntSou]

If you people want anarchy, go back to Civ3. Nine turn anarchies, what fun.

That doesn't address the argument at all.

 

[Equilin]

Tourism mechanics. Tourism is visible, but how much do you need for CV in numbers isn't (which is a downgrade from Civ5 BNW where your accumulated tourism vs a target civ accumulated culture are both shown, you can also view the same thing from other civ's perspectives). I know i have to generate as much tourism as much as possible, but how will it actually give me CV is not invisible (and i wouldn't ever knew until a Civfanatic wrote a guide on it).

I forget Aircraft Carriers are a unit in the game sometimes. I've never seen one even from the AI.

Edit: I wanted to make sure they are real so I looked them up in the civilopedia and never knew that they had a melee attack and could take cities.

I played with carriers before but never knew they could melee!

 

[Deadly Dog]

So now that a few have confessed to knowing that there is anarchy, anyone know what it actually does? How bad is it to be in anarchy? No policy slots for 3 turns?

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

So now that a few have confessed to knowing that there is anarchy, anyone know what it actually does? How bad is it to be in anarchy? No policy slots for 3 turns?

Basically yes. You also don't generate science, culture, gold or faith. For some reason I thought you lose amenities as well but it's not listed on the wiki.
https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Anarchy_(Civ6)

 

[Mahi]

Tourism is fine as it is.. I find it logic that you don't necessarily need it to be 100 percent transparent. It's still easy enough to get a cv once you understand the fundamentals.