Io1

[S.ilver]

Looks like good turns. Personally, I would've built the cottages first, as they're instant 1 to 3 boosts (thanks to Fin), but I do recall that stuff builds slower on FPs, so that probably would've been a bad idea.

The west looks decent for production, but again, some concerns because there's not much food out there. We'll have to chain farm when we get to civil...

How long is that granary taking? I can't imagine it's going to complete very fast with our utter lack of production in the area. We probably have enough growth potential in the capital that we don't have a pressing need for it.

Save file?

EDIT: Hackapell's off it seems, so if there's no qualms, and if there's a save, I'll play the next set.

 

[IdiotsOpposite]

Heh heh... the granary will take a grand total of... 54 more turns!!!

Yeah, that's because we've got 1 production in that city. Also, I think I'll need to post a general picture of the available land. Then I'll post the save.

 

[IdiotsOpposite]

Well, there's so much available land that I had to divide it into four sections to fit it in the screenies!

I haven't made a dot-map of these yet, so Silver, if you do that, that'll be cool. So... without further ado...

The West:

From here, I'd take the tile just NE of the cows for a city. It's got lakes (which look absolutely WONDERFUL with Fin), horses, cows, and corn!

The Southwest:

I'll let you guys decide here, a'ight?

The Southeast:

Look at that spot just NE of the cows! You could get three food resources and a dyes from that spot! And three dead tiles, though...

The East:

Not much to see here, except that you can see further evidence of our mighty religion... The Faith of the River-Sighters!

Save real soon.

 

[IdiotsOpposite]

Well, I don't want to renege on my promise, so as promised, here is the almighty save file...

Not trying to hurry you up, but could you do this as fast as possible, but still with a good turn report? I'm going to have to get off... probably in an hour, and I can't view images in school.

EDIT: Don't start the save yet, I think we need to plan a little first.

 

[S.ilver]

I was going to dotmap it and do a tactical analysis, but if you insist. 20 turns, let's see what we can get done.

 

[Hackapell]

I'll take it after silver, as I need to reload 1.61.

 

[IdiotsOpposite]

No, don't start yet, but when you do start, then go quickly.

EDIT: All right Hackapell. And remember, silver, I got 30 turns done in about 15 minutes.

Also, has anyone else noticed the THIRD river on the right of the East map?

 

[S.ilver]

Turn 0 (2800BC): Went into the game details and changed our name to "Io1" to fit the SG . Doesn't seem to change properly till I reload the game...

Ok, preflight check. Switch a citizen working a FP to the cows. Trade 1 commerce for 3 hammers. Works for me! Set the worker to build the road...

We don't really NEED a granary, because CH is growing like a weed anyways, surplus of 6 food... Dial up another worker to get those cottages started.

Warrior has two turns to rest before he's good again... Leave him...

IBT: A lion comes out of nowhere and settles on the hill beside the horses.

Turn 1 (2760BC): Do nothing... The warrior has one more turn to heal, and the worker just finished the road.

IBT: Lion moves onto the hill beside the warrior.

Turn 2 (2720BC): I'll leave those warriors fortified in the woods for a turn to see if the lion goes for them.

Start the workers on a cottage.

IBT: Lion disappears... Ok...

Turn 3 (2680BC): Scouting... Already can see the west coast with one move.

Turn 4 (2640BC): More of the same...

Turn 5 (2600BC): I notice that we're at the northern end of the map, thanks to the tundra.

Turn 6 (2560BC): Worker done. Move him to a FP to cottage. Meanwhile the other worker has finished his cottage... Dial up a warrior for 4 turns. CH will grow in 4 turns, so we're good to go.

Turn 7 (2520BC): Start another cottage. Moving the scouting warrior to the western city site.

Turn 8 (2480BC):

We can revolt to Slavery. Since we are Mansa, we can do this for free (and no ridiculous BtS random slave revolts either). I revolt us to slavery... Whip will be useful.

I look around. Absolutely no Copper in sight... :: sigh :: Set research to IW.

IBT: Lion reoccupies hill.

Turn 9 (2440BC): The lion is creeping around our settler site... so I attack it with the scouting warrior. It goes down flawless.

Turn 10 (2400BC): Warrior done at CH. Settler in 9 turns. I send the new warrior east to find better lands.

Turn 11 (2360BC):

Almost missed a hut up here...

Both cottages are done this turn, so working 3 cottages, the oasis, and the cows. Research at 21 beakers, and our food surplus is at 7 (working on the settler though).

I'm taking a long look at that hill... That forest wasn't there when we started, so I can chop it for a mine when we need to... Send one worker to the plains hill to mine when we need to slow growth. Good chance for metal there anyways.

Turn 12 (2320BC): One worker mines while the other lays down a road that will eventually head east (when we decide to go there).

Typical...

Turn 13 (2280BC): Err... nothing happening? Moving units.

Turn 14 (2240BC): MORE lions to the east...

Turn 15 (2200BC): Inadvertantly(sp?) move east warriors into a forest next to the lions... Good odds there.

The road worker is done... so more cottages!

Turn 16 (2160BC): Mining workers done too. I get them to build the road on the gamble that there is something there.

Lions clearly fled IBT and I didn't see it... In hot pursuit.

Turn 17 (2120BC): Lions continue to run. They must be able to read the odds.

Turn 18 (2080BC): Lions moved BACK. Whack them with the warriors, but he's down to 1/2.

Road on the mine is done... Move the worker down for another cottage. In retrospect, I should've roaded in case the mine is hot, since we won't be using an extra cottage for the time being anyways...

Turn 19 (2040BC):

AND the Settler is done too!

Set tech to Mysticism, since Mansa needs the Obs to border pop this early. Also, it's the starting tech to get to Monarchy, which we'll need to properly control CH. Sending Settler west to the general area... We can discuss the placement...

Ugh... CH is going to grow to it's happy cap in another 4 turns and it'll need to be stagnanted somehow. I set it on the 4 turn warrior. Plan for another settler after it grows.

5 turns to heal on the east warrior. I give him woodsman. Down to 3 turns. Fortify to heal.

Turn 20 (2000BC): No religions for us...

Move settler more west. The warrior is on fogbusting duty on a hill beside the settler, you can send it with the settler now. Cottaging worker is done. Road that cottage for the eastern road.

Here's where our settler and escort are...

And the situation the capital...

Save attached. Dotmaps and strategic analysis to follow.

EDIT: 10 minutes before the hour

 

[S.ilver]

Dotmaps... Alright, let me try to explain my logic, which I admit might not be very good...

What red and green dots do it fill up the space on the western side of the continent, claiming all visible resources without too much overlap. They will both have decent production values because we've got forests and hills around in decent numbers, and we can farm all around that lake. Might be able to fit another city up above green dot after we have a look there, but that's not a huge priority.

I suggest red first to hook up the horses.

We could go with IO's plan for this area, but it would waste an awful lot of tiles.

Of chief concern here is that we have our only source of iron on the peninsula south of CH. We've also got some nice resources there that we don't want to squander. The logic is we can have one good city (two dead tiles, the desert and mountain) along with a bad city (to secure the iron), or one marginal city (settling on the eastern gold would border pop the whole peninsula quickly for only one city, but it's chewing on 4 dead tiles). Yellow dot would probably be best on the south dot, due to greater coastal coverage and it acts as a canal. We could also settle on the iron for greater security, but I'm not a huge fan of that course of action. It would massively reduce the overlap though. Check to see that we can actually settle either yellow dot though. I don't remember the proximity rules.

Pink dot is giving into IO's suggestion. Chiefly because I can't figure out what to do with that spit of land. I suppose if we move blue over one, we could jam two cities on this spit and move pink a bit south. There's probably better city sites in the fog.

Orange dot is mostly a strategic canal, with decent money making options and some production too. Overall not too bad and it gets us a fish.

White dot needs more scouting... but if there's some favourable terrain under the fog, it's good to go, and could possibly be our next site.

 

[S.ilver]

Further thoughts... now that it is not 1AM and I can be thinking with a well rested head...

1) I forgot to gank the Oasis citizen over to the newly completed cottage when it was finished. Someone remember to do that so it gets growing.

2) Our only happy resource for satisfying Haven's citizens in Gold, and we have 4! of them... To that end, I think we should make hooking one up a priority. For blue dot, I get the sinking feeling that I placed the dots too close and it doesn't work, so perhaps we're safest with one city there... Settling on one of the golds means instant access, and we only need two squares more of road to hook it up with Haven. Settling anywhere other than blue dot would also allow us to squeeze a city between blue and purple in the future (albeit a gimped city).

3) We know there's further real-estate to the east, and more importantly, more RIVER real-estate, so we need to scout that out and stake it. Although the landforms seem extremely weird right now with a lot of jutting peninsulas, so we have no real way of knowing if it continues west. Even if it does, it's going into tundra for at least some time, and any good sites would be that much farther from the capital.

 

[IdiotsOpposite]

Well, I just got back from school, and took a look at this... very nice turns, Silver. Also, sorry, I forgot to tell you about that forest that grew. That gives us seven, so we can chop one now, right?

I didn't know what to put to build in CH, and I was nearing the end of my turn anyway, so I just put it on a granary and expected someone to change it. And, just like I thought, you did.

It might help us choose which dot to go for if we realize that we need a production city REALLY BAD. At 2000 BC, our total production should total more than 4. So, we might want to look at which of the dots give us the best production. Also, as an answer to your question, both of the yellow dots are allowed by the game, and the distance away from another city required to build a new one is at least 3, which these are. Both of them.

Also, in the area of technology, do you think it would be a good idea to start heading for markets, or courthouses? With just one or two cities, courthouses might not be as important, but they would also get us a religion to make our city happier. What do you think, Silver and Hackapell? About all these issues?

EDIT: One more thing. I took another look at the picture of the capital at the end of your turn, Silver, and noticed that we will hit our happiness limit in three turns. I think that until we get more happy in CH-city, at least, once it hits size 6, it should produce settlers and workers, or, as the alternative, we whip it for a building... perhaps an obelisk or stonehenge?

EDIT2: One More Thing(TM). Do you think that it might actually be possible for us to have this whole continent to ourselves? It's either that or we have an isolationist neighbor... wouldn't that be sweet, though?

EDIT3: Yet One More Thing(TM). I looked at the dotmaps, and I think Red Dot might be our best bet. A possible plan for the city is to have it work the horse at size one, and have CH-city build another worker before the settler and send him to Red Dot. He'll hook up the horses and the city, then hook up the second cows. After that, he'll create farms around what part of the lake is in Red Dot's fat cross, then, as there are six forests in Red Dot's fat cross (which reminds me, when it comes time to chop one of CH-city's forests, don't chop the one in Red Dot's cross), we don't touch those, and... well, we can figure that out when the time comes. What do you think?

EDIT4: Never mind about the whipping idea, it wouldn't solve our problems at all unless we whipped more than one pop at once.

EDIT5: One thing about the southwest area. Perhaps it might be a good idea to move Blue Dot one square NW, and get it to culture 100 as quickly as possible? At 100, we claim the iron, still get the wheat (not for working, though), and get a clams. Although these three wouldn't be able to be worked, we would still get the iron without having to make a crap city to get it.

 

[pholkhero]

lurker's comment:
phew, that's a lot of discussion

i also like this:

Deviant Minds SG Ettiquite

Spoiler :

Alpha: The quality of your report outweighs the quality of your play. We’re here to have fun, and, of course, winning is fun, but losing in style is preferable to a boring win. Remember, your report should be a new reply to alert other players.

Bravo: Reports should be detailed, with plenty of screen shots and player commentary, explanations, musings, etc; an auto-log dump will not suffice. Shots of the F9 screens and overview shots of the empire are nice too, once in a while.

Charlie: Punctuality rocks! “24/48” means post a "got it" within 24 hours of when the last save was posted, and play within 48 hours of that ‘got it.’ Waiting 47 hours to ask for a skip is lame. Punk out two times in a row, and you’ll be dropped from the roster. Skips and swaps are fine, but try to let us know sooner, rather than later.

Delta: Major game decisions (war/peace declarations, religion swaps, city placement, etc) should be arrived at via group consensus.
1. If the team disagrees with you, either argue your case better, or do it their way. Do NOT just blow them off and do it your way because it's your turn.
2. However, if there’s no consensus and you’re up, do it your way and explain why. Conversely, if someone else is up, don't whine when they do it their way.
3. Similarly, overruling techs or city builds is rude and should be done via consensus, barring an emergency.
4. In extraordinary situations, sometimes an opportunity presents itself that the group didn't foresee. If the consequences of it are great (war declarations, birth of Great People, even some quests), players should stop, and refer the question to the group.

Echo: Being a better player does not give you the right to belittle anyone else or their play. Other people are going to disagree with you on major decisions; get used to the idea, and play nice. If not, take your ball and go home.

Foxtrot: Thread spam is good. Trash talking, poking fun, gentle ribbing, virtual noogies, and generally horsing around are all encouraged, but don’t be rude. See any SG I or other DMers have been in to see what I mean.

Golf: Automate sparingly.
1. Workers should almost never be automated, except perhaps late-game or building a trade network. However, if you have to, set your game options to “disallow automated worker forest chopping” and “keep previous improvements.”
2. Use of the “Emphasis” buttons is fine, but let the group know and explain your reasoning (specialization is a major game decision). If you prevent growth in a city, let the group know and remind them to take it off. Do NOT let the governor select build orders.
3. Sending units on go-to routes that last beyond your set is acceptable only if they’re heading for a rally point or if you otherwise inform your teammates.

Hotel: NEVER fortify Great People. Just press enter for 15 turns. Is that so hard?

India: Sign spamming is rude. Signs can be helpful reminders, but too many signs makes them easily ignored. Once a sign is no longer valid, delete it.

And i forgot it in my SGs :doh:

btw, i thought you only had mac civ hack?

 

[IdiotsOpposite]

I'd say that Hackapell has a lot to do!

He's got to read all this stuff, discuss it, and play his ten turns, AND make up a report!

 

[Hackapell]

Got it. Will settle Djenne on the Red dot in the west, and scout more, but I am quite certain we are isolated. Best just to fill our landmass, grab courthouses and Markets, then head to Optics.

More detail when I can open the save.

@ Pholk

This is vanilla, and that I do have.

 

[IdiotsOpposite]

All right. Hope this'll be good... erm, I mean fun!

 

[S.ilver]

The point of blue dot currently is that it only has 2 dead tiles in it. That's why it's an attractive option for making a decent city on that peninsula (which other than the gold, really stinks). Also, we need to be able to work one of the food resources there, otherwise that city won't be able to take advantage of the gold anyways.

My vote is for more settlers. We haven't met another civ yet, and we appear to have a fairly large landmass, so let's fill it. That will keep Haven busy and not growing while we tech towards CoL and hopefully grab Confucianism (which will give us a bit of happy as well).

If I was going to whip anything in Haven, I'd wait until we've made a few more settlers, and then whip the granary that's still queued up. The plains hill that I mined basically doubles our pathetic production, and slows growth a bit, but we'll lose out on 3 commerce. I think so long as we're making settlers and workers, we don't need to work it yet.

I'd also wait on more workers for now. Haven is basically maxed out on it's pop, so it doesn't really need any more improvements for now, so those two workers can do something else. I also think I might've goofed making a second worker before the settler, but I REALLY wanted those cottages online. I think we can use both those workers to set up red dot fairly quickly to build units to escort our settlers, because that will become a problem.

Oh, and the reason I've been making warriors instead of skirmishers is 4 vs 7 turn build time. With our pop growth, can't really afford to take too long to build stuff.

Anyways, I think a beeline to CoL is in order... I did earlier advocate Hereditary Rule... But we have no wine, and currently, no troops either...

 

[IdiotsOpposite]

Hey, I've got an idea. After we get optics, why don't we go for banking?

Ungodly commerce+Market+Bank=mmm...

 

[IdiotsOpposite]

That reminds me, I feel it would be better for us all to know this.

What timezone are you guys in, Hack and Silver? I've got Pacific (GMT-8).

 

[S.ilver]

Eastern (GMT-5)

Doesn't my profile say I live in Toronto?

 

[Hackapell]

Also Eastern, NYC.