Irish UU
- Thread starter kulade
- Start date
aaglo
Furioso!
Potato farmer?
Sheep herder?
No, wait!
A pugilist!
Sheep herder?
No, wait!
A pugilist!
Der PH
Combat Smurf
Aaglo, you are an evil person!
Kulade: Somewhere on the forum there are flcs for a unit called 'Galloglass'. Very nice graphics. I'm using it for something completely different, but AFAIR it is some kind of Irish mercenary.
EDIT: Just found the thread:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=53241&highlight=galloglass
Reading the thread again, it appears to be more a scot unit than an irish one. Judge for yourself.
DoubleT
Prince
The Unit does not look that Scotish or Irish? 
aaglo
Furioso!
One option is the pictish warrior - but that (like many others) are more scottish than irish I think.
KingArthur
Searching for the Holy Grail
Option #1 Ancient Age
The Fianna were made up of members from many different tribes who travelled in bands of up to 3000 men across
the country protecting the land from invaders. The Fianna's greatest task was the defence of the coast. They
had a system of look-outs and signals posted on top of cliffs and at fords and passes of importance. Signals
were passed by relays of runners or by beacons at night. Therefore the Fianna were alerted very quickly of any
encroachments and could defend the land straightaway.
#DESC_PRTO_Gallic_Swordsman
^The motto of the Fianna was: Truth in our hearts. Strength in our hands. Consistency in our tongues. They had a
special war-cry called the- ['Diord Fionn']. The conditions for entry to the Finna were strict. First of all no man
was taken until he was a prime poet versed in the twelve books of bardic literature. No man was taken until he
could defend himself from within a large hole in the ground up to his belt, with only his shield and a length of
hazel rod. While nine warriors having nine spears and being a distance of ten furrows away from him let fly at him
together. No man was taken until he had woven his hair into many braids and he was set at a run through the woods, while the
ones seeking to wound him were sent after him there having been just one forest bough between them at first. If
he was overtaken and wounded he was not allowed entry, If his weapons had quivered in his hand he was not taken,
If his hair was disturbed in any way out of its braiding he was not taken. If he cracked a dry stick under his
foot as he ran he was not taken.
If he could manage to do all the above successfully then he was accepted into the Fianna.
Option #2 Middle Ages
However superior the knights of other countries might be upon the field of battle, the bogs and woods of Ireland give little
opportunity for the mail-clad charge. What developed there was a type of light horseman, which became known as the hobelar.
^
^A city must have $LINK<horses=GOOD_Horses> in its $LINK<Strategic Resource=GCON_ResourcesS> box to build a hobelar unit.
^
^Hobelars are exceptionally swift units and [do not incur a movement penalty over difficult terrain]. Hobelars can also ambush
and quickly retreat against units within their $LINK<zone of control=GCON_ZOC>.
The Fianna were made up of members from many different tribes who travelled in bands of up to 3000 men across
the country protecting the land from invaders. The Fianna's greatest task was the defence of the coast. They
had a system of look-outs and signals posted on top of cliffs and at fords and passes of importance. Signals
were passed by relays of runners or by beacons at night. Therefore the Fianna were alerted very quickly of any
encroachments and could defend the land straightaway.
#DESC_PRTO_Gallic_Swordsman
^The motto of the Fianna was: Truth in our hearts. Strength in our hands. Consistency in our tongues. They had a
special war-cry called the- ['Diord Fionn']. The conditions for entry to the Finna were strict. First of all no man
was taken until he was a prime poet versed in the twelve books of bardic literature. No man was taken until he
could defend himself from within a large hole in the ground up to his belt, with only his shield and a length of
hazel rod. While nine warriors having nine spears and being a distance of ten furrows away from him let fly at him
together. No man was taken until he had woven his hair into many braids and he was set at a run through the woods, while the
ones seeking to wound him were sent after him there having been just one forest bough between them at first. If
he was overtaken and wounded he was not allowed entry, If his weapons had quivered in his hand he was not taken,
If his hair was disturbed in any way out of its braiding he was not taken. If he cracked a dry stick under his
foot as he ran he was not taken.
If he could manage to do all the above successfully then he was accepted into the Fianna.
Option #2 Middle Ages
However superior the knights of other countries might be upon the field of battle, the bogs and woods of Ireland give little
opportunity for the mail-clad charge. What developed there was a type of light horseman, which became known as the hobelar.
^
^A city must have $LINK<horses=GOOD_Horses> in its $LINK<Strategic Resource=GCON_ResourcesS> box to build a hobelar unit.
^
^Hobelars are exceptionally swift units and [do not incur a movement penalty over difficult terrain]. Hobelars can also ambush
and quickly retreat against units within their $LINK<zone of control=GCON_ZOC>.
KingArthur
Searching for the Holy Grail
There's also the Kern
^The largest component of medieval Irish armies were the Kern. The Kern were basically bands of Irish mercenaries, sometimes
called ceithirne congbhala, ['retained bands']. Those that fought in the service of a lord were known as [Household Kern].
Unemployed Kern were known as 'wood kern' or bandits who had a habit of coercing 'hospitality' from all and sundry.
^
Kern fight as unarmoured footmen variously armed with javelins, axes, slings and bows but the spear was their main weapon. They
prefer to mount hit and run ambushes rather than fight open pitched battles. Consequently, Kern have a $LINK<zone of control=GCON_ZOC>.
^The largest component of medieval Irish armies were the Kern. The Kern were basically bands of Irish mercenaries, sometimes
called ceithirne congbhala, ['retained bands']. Those that fought in the service of a lord were known as [Household Kern].
Unemployed Kern were known as 'wood kern' or bandits who had a habit of coercing 'hospitality' from all and sundry.
^
Kern fight as unarmoured footmen variously armed with javelins, axes, slings and bows but the spear was their main weapon. They
prefer to mount hit and run ambushes rather than fight open pitched battles. Consequently, Kern have a $LINK<zone of control=GCON_ZOC>.
Goldflash
Civ III Modder, Civ VII Player
Of course, you could always use Smoking Mirrior's rifle armed partisain as an IRA fighter, but you wanted a pre-gunpowder unit.
Gallowglass; medieval infantry replacement, STATS 4/3/1, originally mercenaries, some became powerfull Clans in their own right. head to toe chainmail, conical helmet, shield and long-axe (descended from Danish long axe). Famous for not retreating unlike normal Irish hit-and-run.
Utahjazz's Huscarl is perfect for it. (well if the cross was a celtic one it would be). Basically started as Gaelicised Vikings in the Hebridies.
Kerns; normal Irish warriors called up in the "rising out". Armed with javelins, swords and normaly a buckler or gauntlet. The bulk of Irish troops during the Anglo-Irish wars. Very effective from ambush, less effective in open against pikes etc. Swift. I'd say STATS 3/1/2, ignore move cost of woods and marsh, replace pikemen (who were very rare in Ireland). No ideal graphics out there but Utahjazz's European Swordsman is pretty close. KERN were sometimes mercenary but most were just a levy.
Gailianna; like Irish gaestatae, Naked warrior mercenaries in blue woad from earlier times than the previous two. The choice for those who like the pictish swordsman, but don't think he looks Irish. Now you know it does. By the way the Irish term for a naked warrior translates as "Skyclad"
Fianna; the mythical group became the name for groups like the Degad ("seekers"), Craibh Ria ("royal branch", Cu Cullains red branch knights are a mistranslation of royal branch (Rua/Ria)) and the Naisc Niadh. Who were early orders of knighthood who served the high kings of the Cuiga (Ulaidh, Mumu, Connachta, Laighin, Mead). They were knight in that they were noble warriors sworn before god to serve the king, not that they had heavt armour and warhorses. They fought on foot. Gallic swordsmen or Rohan royal guard graphics might fit.
EDIT: By the way the Gallowglass unit in that thread does look Irish but is probably a heavly armed Bonnacht. Bonnachts were household troops who fought either like Kerns or Gallowglasses, but were neither levies or Mercenaries. Gallowglasses were very nearly always armed with a long-axe. If you see a picture of a Gallowgass armed with a two-handed sword, odds are its a Bonnacht equipped to fight in the same role (Heavy Infantry), mislabeled by someone unaware of the distinction. Many continental pictures of Gallowgalsses or Irish warriors are based on second hand description. Gallowglasses and Bonnacht fighting as Heavy infantry often had a Kern or two to act as squires on the battlefield. In the case of those graphics the guy holding his sword is a Kern. SO if you want to use those graphics rename it a Bonnacht, give it 4/2/2 as stats (although equipped like a Gallowglass, a Bonnacht will still retreat rather than fight to the death like a Gallowglass).
You could use all of the above and take away Pikemen and Knights, Catapults, Trebuchets and longbowmen from the Irish and have the computer fight more like the Gaels!
Utahjazz's Huscarl is perfect for it. (well if the cross was a celtic one it would be). Basically started as Gaelicised Vikings in the Hebridies.
Kerns; normal Irish warriors called up in the "rising out". Armed with javelins, swords and normaly a buckler or gauntlet. The bulk of Irish troops during the Anglo-Irish wars. Very effective from ambush, less effective in open against pikes etc. Swift. I'd say STATS 3/1/2, ignore move cost of woods and marsh, replace pikemen (who were very rare in Ireland). No ideal graphics out there but Utahjazz's European Swordsman is pretty close. KERN were sometimes mercenary but most were just a levy.
Gailianna; like Irish gaestatae, Naked warrior mercenaries in blue woad from earlier times than the previous two. The choice for those who like the pictish swordsman, but don't think he looks Irish. Now you know it does. By the way the Irish term for a naked warrior translates as "Skyclad"
Fianna; the mythical group became the name for groups like the Degad ("seekers"), Craibh Ria ("royal branch", Cu Cullains red branch knights are a mistranslation of royal branch (Rua/Ria)) and the Naisc Niadh. Who were early orders of knighthood who served the high kings of the Cuiga (Ulaidh, Mumu, Connachta, Laighin, Mead). They were knight in that they were noble warriors sworn before god to serve the king, not that they had heavt armour and warhorses. They fought on foot. Gallic swordsmen or Rohan royal guard graphics might fit.
EDIT: By the way the Gallowglass unit in that thread does look Irish but is probably a heavly armed Bonnacht. Bonnachts were household troops who fought either like Kerns or Gallowglasses, but were neither levies or Mercenaries. Gallowglasses were very nearly always armed with a long-axe. If you see a picture of a Gallowgass armed with a two-handed sword, odds are its a Bonnacht equipped to fight in the same role (Heavy Infantry), mislabeled by someone unaware of the distinction. Many continental pictures of Gallowgalsses or Irish warriors are based on second hand description. Gallowglasses and Bonnacht fighting as Heavy infantry often had a Kern or two to act as squires on the battlefield. In the case of those graphics the guy holding his sword is a Kern. SO if you want to use those graphics rename it a Bonnacht, give it 4/2/2 as stats (although equipped like a Gallowglass, a Bonnacht will still retreat rather than fight to the death like a Gallowglass).
You could use all of the above and take away Pikemen and Knights, Catapults, Trebuchets and longbowmen from the Irish and have the computer fight more like the Gaels!
Vasili
Warlord
Utahjazz7 had made this unit the Pictish Warrior:
I used him as the irish U.U
I used him as the irish U.U
KingArthur
Searching for the Holy Grail
Gallic Swordsman would fit a Fianna.
For Kern, you want an unarmoured foot soldier with a spear or javelin - there's 2 units you could use: the Peltast (but this may be a bit primitive) or the Elven Spearman - you'll find both in the Units forum. There's no real good units made for Hobelar as far a I know- there's the Elven Horseman but he uses a bow whereas a Hobelar would have a spear or Javelin - perhaps the plain Civ Horseman would be the best fit but it's not really distinctive.
BTW You do know that Picts and Scots are not the same people, right?
Either the Bonnacht or the Galloglass would work best. The best post-gunpowder Irish UU would be the Provo (Provisional Infantry).. or a Flying Column.
kulade, in your scenario the Scots should be a nation along with the Picts and instead have a Gaelic or Celtic culture group.
kulade, in your scenario the Scots should be a nation along with the Picts and instead have a Gaelic or Celtic culture group.
KingArthur
Searching for the Holy Grail
Here's a beauty of a website (it includes the Hobilar, Tathlum):
http://www.geocities.com/na_degadmedieval_ireland/Irish-Horsemen-History-and-Equipment.html
http://www.geocities.com/na_degadmedieval_ireland/Irish-Horsemen-History-and-Equipment.html
Okay, I read that page but I'm afaid I disagree with it. The equipment and tactics are all spot on but the name is wrong. Hobilar isn't a gaelic term. A Hobilar is generic light cavalry often (such as at Poitier) referred to as carrying missile weapons such as bows or crossbows.
Perhaps the confusion stems from Anglo-Normans using the term to referre to Gaelic cavalry, and English Hobilars did indeed fight in Ireland, but a Hobilar is not, as that webpage called them, uniquely Irish. English Hobilars I'm familiar with, Gaelic, I'm not. The fact that English Hobilars existed would prevent them from being uniquely Gaelic anyway.
This is why I suggest they be called Thanes (mounted Nobles).
In any case Kerns are probably the best choice for a UU. They did make up the bulk of Gaelic forces.
Thank you for the link...
Perhaps the confusion stems from Anglo-Normans using the term to referre to Gaelic cavalry, and English Hobilars did indeed fight in Ireland, but a Hobilar is not, as that webpage called them, uniquely Irish. English Hobilars I'm familiar with, Gaelic, I'm not. The fact that English Hobilars existed would prevent them from being uniquely Gaelic anyway.
This is why I suggest they be called Thanes (mounted Nobles).
In any case Kerns are probably the best choice for a UU. They did make up the bulk of Gaelic forces.
Thank you for the link...
KingArthur
Searching for the Holy Grail
Hobilar is probably not a useful name. But I think what this website is trying to suggest is that the idea of employing light horsemen in the Irish way led to the development of the Hobilar. I guess the owners of the horses must have been nobles since it would have been expensive to keep a horse so Mounted Noble/Thane - so I'm agreeing with you on this one Tathlum
Incidentally, I also read that the English were so impressed with these Irish horsemen that they employed them to help deal with the Scots as a way of taking the fight to them. Also, that the type of horse was uniquely Irish, being smaller but swift and sturdy.
Incidentally, I also read that the English were so impressed with these Irish horsemen that they employed them to help deal with the Scots as a way of taking the fight to them. Also, that the type of horse was uniquely Irish, being smaller but swift and sturdy.
