Ironworks : where ?

[Memoryjar]

Hi all.

Where do you build Ironworks ?

I used to build it in my capital. Since a few times, I build it in my best city production other than capital.

Basically, more prod in caps is better production for wonders and spaceship parts. But it seems with building tempo (LT and other stuffs) better in another city.
At the end it makes capital and a city able to build late wonders and spaceships parts in the same time in two city instead in one pretty fast.

So, what is your practice ?

 

[Asklepios]

I see what you're saying, certainly, but I think I've only ever once built it outside my capital, and that was because my capital was lower production than my second city.

Generally I think concentration of hammers is a good idea, as it means you can win wonder races, reactively get the Unit you need, and so on.

 

[PurpleHaze34]

I've done it many ways. I used to only build it in the capital, then I started building it in my largest hammer second city, but sometimes I use it for that lagging behind 3rd city...

If I go for wonders after ironworks it's late and I feel like I'll get the ones I want, otherwise it's GE time. So having three even cities feels good over 1 city that has everything and the others not producing anything.

I am curious what other peoples responses are.

 

[Bulldog Bats]

I build it in the city with the most hammers - I like to have one super production city where I can bang out WWs (or something else important) as quickly as possible.

 

[VicRatlhead5199]

Generally in a hammer heavy city where I can build a forge or stables. It's usually the city I use for units and I'll put the heroic epic, Brandenburg Gate etc. plus the xp buildings. For the most part it's the only city I build/buy units in. I hate to say it but usually my IW city is as important to me as my capital and if I lose it I'm f----- for a while.

 

[chazzycat]

I like to build it in my 2nd best city, for culture games. Having 2 strong production cities really helps nail the key Renaissance wonders. I like to build Globe in my capital if possible, while my 2nd city builds Leaning Tower. Then use the GE from LT to rush Sistine or Uffizi. Getting two theme bonus wonders in the Renaissance is a very solid start to a culture victory, almost necessary IMO. On emperor and below this should be a very strong strategy, and it's my go-to on immortal as well if I have a good start. But you have to emphasize science strongly and watch the AI carefully...if they beat you to PP by any decent margin it ruins the entire plan. But then you have bigger concerns then where you put ironworks.

 

[klaskeren]

depends on what type of game you are playing,

domination? plant in city with exp buildings -> 95% of time capitol, can spam high quality units out faster

science, its a bit more dubious, usually in city which does not have such high production since it then can get important buildings up faster, unless ofc you are spamming wonders/using gold for science buildings, (which could be the case alot) in which case its fine to get it capitol most of the time.

 

[joncnunn]

Ironworks: I'm never built them anywhere but the capital in Civ V; my capital has always been the best hammer city. I recall back in the days of Civ IV spreading national wonders around, but in Civ V it's normally the capital that is best at everything.

 

[Majestic Emu]

I'm about 50/50 with building it in my 2nd city or the capital.

Capital if I really want to bang out wonders. Then other times I think, it's already my highest production city, and I like the idea of two cities that can get buildings up quickly and turn out units.

 

[zenmaster]

I only put Ironworks in my capital if it has somewhat weak production.

Otherwise, in a standard 3-5 cityish game, I will almost always put it in the city with the weakest production. You built each of your cities for a reason, and the low production ones are often built to get luxuries or resources, maybe on the coast. Those cities need buildings too, especially if you need national wonders or the maritime buildings. Oftentimes those low production cities are cash cows as well, so ideally you get banks and stock exchanges in them ASAP.

Unless I've got more money than I know what to do with, I'd rather save for science buildings, unit upgrades, CS bribes, and/or spaceship parts then blow my cash on a bank or harbor or opera house to get the hermitage or something like that.

Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk

 

[Asklepios]

I only put Ironworks in my capital if it has somewhat weak production.

Otherwise, in a standard 3-5 cityish game, I will almost always put it in the city with the weakest production. You built each of your cities for a reason, and the low production ones are often built to get luxuries or resources, maybe on the coast. Those cities need buildings too, especially if you need national wonders or the maritime buildings. Oftentimes those low production cities are cash cows as well, so ideally you get banks and stock exchanges in them ASAP.

Unless I've got more money than I know what to do with, I'd rather save for science buildings, unit upgrades, CS bribes, and/or spaceship parts then blow my cash on a bank or harbor or opera house to get the hermitage or something like that.

Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk

The city with the weakest production?

While I kind of understand your logic there, I think its not sensible to do that. You'll have to invest more turns there in getting the Ironworks built in the first place, then once it is you'll be getting less benefit from it, given that its +50% of a smaller number.

If you have a low production city that needs picking up, I'd direct internal trade routes to it, or build more production worker improvements, or cash buy production buildings, or best of all, let it be a low production city that is instead good at doing what you placed it for, and just cash buy the key buildings it needs/

 

[Brandonito50]

Er, what +50%? Ironworks only gives a flat +8 hammers afaik.

 

[sherbz]

IMO its best to build it in your largest hammer coastal city. You usually want at least one coastal city and run all, or a large part of, your trading ships out of this city. Sometimes that isnt your capital. You have to build more infrastructure here than in other cities too. Markets, banks, harbors, sea ports, naval units etc all are big picks in naval cities. and often you want them up quicker, so a hammer boost is nice. Putting it in your landlocked capital might bag you a load of wonders or be an uber unit pump, but every city can build those things (and wonders are not that useful) whereas coastal cities are often finite.

 

[Gustavus Rex]

When playing peaceful I put it in my wonder-making city with is capital or the petra-super-city.

When in war I put it in my unit-spamming city while focus on culture and science-stuff in capital. All wonders is going to be mine anyway.


Skickas från min iPhone via Tapatalk

 

[Memoryjar]

For war, I agree. Unit-spamming city, generally capital, is the best.

For peaceful, my issue is Pisa. I often have to build at the same time Ironworks and Pisa. So I waste 3 to 5 turns in Ironworks before PT (Ironworks use to save 2 to 4 turns for PT).
With Ironworks in another city, I can have at the same time Ironworks and Pisa (if AI didn't take it). After, it makes a decent second prod city where I can build second wonder choice (not very need, just helpful : Big Ben and PT).

Thanks for your feedbacks.

 

[neilkaz]

It's situational. Especially when going science, I want it in a very high production city and the city that I'll build Hubble in, since space ship parts take so long to build since the fall patch.

 

[zenmaster]

The city with the weakest production?

While I kind of understand your logic there, I think its not sensible to do that. You'll have to invest more turns there in getting the Ironworks built in the first place, then once it is you'll be getting less benefit from it, given that its +50% of a smaller number.

If you have a low production city that needs picking up, I'd direct internal trade routes to it, or build more production worker improvements, or cash buy production buildings, or best of all, let it be a low production city that is instead good at doing what you placed it for, and just cash buy the key buildings it needs/

Thanks for the input. I think others have already addressed most of your points as to my thinking.

As Brandonito says, it is not a 50% bonus, it's a flat 8 hammers.

Sherbz pointed out the benefits of putting the IW in a coastal city. Since 9 times out of 10, my weakest production city is a coastal city, my thinking pretty much jibes with his.

And as neilkaz mentions, of course it's situational: If I'm going for an early victory (low difficulty level or non-deity domination or diplomacy) there's no reason not to put Ironworks in your capital or other best city. The other cities you have won't have time to take advantage of it. If you don't have a need for many national wonders (or built all you needed early before expanding), than you may not need it in a weak production city. And of course, there's always those occasional games where you have more cash than you know what to do with; in that case you can buy all those buildings the weak production city needs.

As a general rule of thumb though in a long game (science or very high difficulty), I find putting it in my weakest production city helps my whole empire more than putting it in an already powerhouse capital or Petra-type 2nd city...

As for trade routes, if I'm going for space victory, my trade routes all need to be for growth (for science) or cash (freedom 3rd tier policy buying parts). If I'm going for diplomatic victory, I need trade routes for cash or CS relations (ideology policies). If I'm going for cultural victory, I need trade routes with other civs for the tourism bonus. Internal hammer routes are always dead last on the trade route priority list basically. Food routes are best for any victory, and cash/diplomatic relations are often vital as well.

If I can spend 15-20 turns building an ironworks to mostly solve my slow building issues in a city, it's better than tying up a valuable trade route or spending cash I could use to buy a research lab, SS Booster, or CS ally. At least that's what I've found works better for me.

 

[beetle]

IMO its best to build it in your largest hammer coastal city.

Agreed, but for a slightly different but complementary reason. IMHO your largest hammer coast city should be where you build Heroic Epic, in order to have the Morale Promotion available for water units.

I often wait on Heroic Epic until I have Ironworks up. Is that bad?

 

[sherbz]

Thanks for the input. I think others have already addressed most of your points as to my thinking.

As Brandonito says, it is not a 50% bonus, it's a flat 8 hammers.

Sherbz pointed out the benefits of putting th IW in a coastal city. Since 9 times out of 10, my weakest production city is a coastal city, my thinking pretty much jibes with his.

And as neilkaz mentions, of course it's situational: If I'm going for an early victory (low difficulty level or non-deity domination or diplomacy) there's no reason not to put Ironworks in your capital or other best city. The other cities you have won't have time to take advantage of it. If you don't have a need for many national wonders (or built all you needed early before expanding), than you may not need it in a weak production city. And of course, there's always those occasional games where you have more cash than you know what to do with; in that case you can buy all those buildings the weak production city needs.

As a general rule of thumb though in a long game (science or very high difficulty), I find putting it in my weakest production city helps my whole empire more than putting it in an already powerhouse capital or Petra 2nd city...

I kind of get this line of thought, but i would always put it in my gold city. Generally I consider it a waste building anything beyond Markets in all of my cities. So your gold city has to build banks, stock exchanges, A mint (if you have gold/silver) and the national treasury. Cargo ships are much better than caravans, so you will want these to run out of your gold city, so your gold city should be on the coast. As it is on the coast, you will probably have access to costal resources, so you will need work boats, lighthouses, harbors and seaports. You will also need a city to build ships unless you can wait for planes. All in all they have a HUGE amount extra to be building. They are also more likely to have fewer hammer tiles because they are on the coast. Finally, you also want some great people buildings because once you get to the only remaining tiles as normal coast, you should stick the extra population into great people instead.

This city can of course be your capital, but otherwise i will nearly always stick it here.

 

[sherbz]

Agreed, but for a slightly different but complementary reason. IMHO your largest hammer coast city should be where you build Heroic Epic, in order to have the Morale Promotion available for water units.

I often wait on Heroic Epic until I have Ironworks up. Is that bad?

No. I also build heroic epic in a coastal city usually. This strategy works well on immortal/deity. You should never neglect your navy. Now that ships can take cities are large naval force can be devastating. Coupled with the trade factor, if you dont protect this costal city with naval forces, a naval attack can totally devastate your economy.