Is Every Leader Like Gorgo Now?

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Maybe it's just the way one of my current games is going but every time I've tried to make peace with two of the leaders, Mvemba and Dido, they just flat out refuse no matter what I try and give them. This is really the only game I've fully started since the latest patch.

I've constantly been at war for a couple of eras with them and at this point it is just annoying because I've had to focus on military instead of building what I wanted to do.

 

[bbbt]

There's no ongoing emergency related to you? That's when I've usually seen it happen.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

There's no ongoing emergency related to you? That's when I've usually seen it happen.

There were in an emergency against me, but that's been long past. Mvemba eventually made peace but Dido still refuses.
Mvemba declared a surprise war on me so I took his closest city. Then an emergency popped up and they failed but she continues to want to go to war.

 

[bbbt]

Hmm. Did they add Gorgo's agenda as a secondary agenda?

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Hmm. Did they add Gorgo's agenda as a secondary agenda?

As far as I know she was glad that my empire wasn't posing a threat to her so I assume she has the Paranoid second agenda. The other hidden agendas haven't popped up yet.
I'm playing as Pericles btw and I'm just going to attribute it that Dido looks similar to Gorgo anyway and she sees Athens as a threat.

 

[Victoria]

they just flat out refuse no matter what I try and give them

First time this happened to me I was confused, second time frustrated. It happened before the patch also. I assume you have annoyed the hell out of them and they ain’t gonna quit until they hurt you.... or you hurt them sufficiently.

It’s only happened about 5 times but the only way out is take about half their cities. You can give them back in peace of you do not want the grievances.

 

[OmegaDestroyer]

I have had similar issues which is frustratingly stupid. It is even worse when coupled with war weariness appearing broken as to the AI. I had Hungary, on Emperor, declare war on me today after being denounced because "they plain don't like you" (soooooo dumb). I killed 4 warriors, a slinger, two heavy chariots, and a horseman, in 10 or so turns, without any noticeable effect to Hungary's amenities. A player would be swarmed with barbs and sitting -5 amenities after something like that.

Given that I was in a dark age with one city, trapped between King Idiot and an angry barbarian camp, I finally had it, quit, and uninstalled the game.

 

[Timewarp]

I had a game on King where Nubia just wouldn't agree to peace. I suppose there is stuff I could have given her to get peace.

Instead I found and took her last city. I was Alexander in this game - so no war weariness.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I encountered this problem. I ended up having to take a few cities to get them to see the writing on the wall.

 

[Connor_CivFan]

The last few games war has been a lot more common than normal, very strange

 

[Kaan Boztepe]

business as usual for me , i always take a few cities to give back at peace talks , otherwise AI never is interested , and also if you move your army away before you talk they also flat out refuse

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

AFAIK Only Iscandar / Alexander of Macedon is warlike and will mock you if you don't wage war against any other civs or city states just like what Gorgo slammed your peaceful stance "What kinda man you are? Where's honor without fighin' any battle?"

 

[XplosiveLun]

But it make more sense than before. Why would I give you 50 gpt if you can't blitzkrieg my cities? I could have a stalemate or draining your troops while you slowly devouring me.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

First time this happened to me I was confused, second time frustrated. It happened before the patch also. I assume you have annoyed the hell out of them and they ain’t gonna quit until they hurt you.... or you hurt them sufficiently.

Well Kongo basically forward settled my capital and as soon as I built my first Holy Site he disliked me for not sending my religion to him, even though I had no way to do it yet. I should have seen it coming and instead of trying to quickly build a shrine to send a missionary, he declares a surprise war.
I take that city and then the medieval era finally shows up and there is an emergency against me with Dido and him targeting me as they are already allied right now.
Even though I'm at peace with Kongo right now and converted one of his cities he still hates me. The problem with Dido is most of her cities are way farther away from me and it will be a pain.
I've settled two coastal cities in the process which probably won't help the relationship as well.

 

[Victoria]

I've settled two coastal cities in the process which probably won't help the relationship as well.

I disagree. The issue is Kongo not Dido. It is very likely you have hemmed him in and it’s a silent modifier around land that is annoying him.
Dido should have been able to be bribed out of the situation as she will be based on the visible modifiers, at least initially. When someone joint wars you with a distant person I have always found the distant person has been bribed into joint warring.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I disagree. The issue is Kongo not Dido. It is very likely you have hemmed him in and it’s a silent modifier around land that is annoying him.
Dido should have been able to be bribed out of the situation as she will be based on the visible modifiers, at least initially. When someone joint wars you with a distant person I have always found the distant person has been bribed into joint warring.

To be fair Kongo has been hemming me in. I can only go north unless I decide to settle into tundra or west into a desert, and he has been taking all the woods/rainforest and strategic resources.
I'm not sure any bribing went on other than she joined the emergency against me, but the emergency has been over for so long and she still kept going.

 

[Pfeffersack]

This does seem to happen now among AIs as well. Very early in my current game I bribed Kristina to help me in a surpise war I declared on Persia. So far in my experience the help of AI allies is rather short-time, but in that case I signed peace with Persia after a quite a few turns and the Swedish stayed in war with them - and still continue with it (200+ turns since then have passed!). It was to be said though that it is a war without much action, since my lands seperate Sweden and Persia and Kristina has no open borders with me (in terms of land size, army strength and tech progress she would easily beat Persia, but she doesn't offer more then a single gold for the ROP, so I don't see a reason to grant it to her)

But given what you others experienced, that my be in fact the reason - the AI isn't any more interested to quickly finish wars, be it because they feel strong or don't suffer serious losses.

 

[Timewarp]

This does seem to happen now among AIs as well. Very early in my current game I bribed Kristina to help me in a surpise war I declared on Persia. So far in my experience the help of AI allies is rather short-time, but in that case I signed peace with Persia after a quite a few turns and the Swedish stayed in war with them - and still continue with it (200+ turns since then have passed!). It was to be said though that it is a war without much action, since my lands seperate Sweden and Persia and Kristina has no open borders with me (in terms of land size, army strength and tech progress she would easily beat Persia, but she doesn't offer more then a single gold for the ROP, so I don't see a reason to grant it to her)

But given what you others experienced, that my be in fact the reason - the AI isn't any more interested to quickly finish wars, be it because they feel strong or don't suffer serious losses.

So the strategy is: declare war on a strong nation, with the aid of any other nation. Then make peace with the strong nation. The perpetual war between the two countries will cause war weariness to both, reducing the happiness and thus growth of both. This seems like a sound way to hinder other nations.

 

[Victoria]

The perpetual war between the two countries will cause war weariness to both, r

And war weariness to you.
Tbh, unless there is a lot of killing or shooting going on WW is pretty useless. It decays at a fair rate and only negatively affects cities as much as amenities would positively.

 

[Timewarp]

And war weariness to you.
Tbh, unless there is a lot of killing or shooting going on WW is pretty useless. It decays at a fair rate and only negatively affects cities as much as amenities would positively.

I wrote it wrong. I meant you and another country fight a strong country. You leave the war. The other two keep on fighting, which Pfeffersack implied was what the AI would do, and so both other countries suffer from war weariness (as well as no trade between them) while you go on with things. The other two countries don't actually send MILITARY units to face off against each other (except possibly by accident now and again possibly), but it does keep them from cooperating with each other in any meaningful sort of way, and it does inflict war weariness on both other countries.

As you say, this is only a small detriment to each other country, so this only has a bit of usefulness.