Is it even possible to win a culture victory if another civ is going for it too?

[Bridger]

I won a culture victory yesterday, but it felt like the only reason I did was because the AI stupidly allowed open borders and trade routes into their cities (i used great musicians inside their borders for big boost, which I could not have done if they didn't give me open borders). If not for that fact, I never would have had enough tourism to get to them before somebody else got another victory. No player would have given me open borders no matter how much gold I offered them, because it was basically giving the game to me. Stupid AI, grumble grumble.

I was making something like +600 culture and only +250 tourism with hotels and airports everywhere and every damn slot of my great works buildings filled (except for a few writing/music spots) and I had at least 3-4 wonders specifically for their bonuses (like the louvre). There is no way in hell another civ doing the same thing would ever outpace me at my +600 culture and I would never outpace them if they were making anywhere near 600 culture. It seems like the only way to win a culture victory is if they let you do it by allowing open borders :\

I hadn't gotten to the internet yet, but that seems so late in the game that somebody could easily buy a diplomatic (economic) victory before you even get to the internet/national visitors center. Culture victories now seem more like "Tech victory light" since you absolutely NEED the internet in order to win with it.

If only 1 civ goes for culture victory, it's way easier than any other victory type. If two or more civs go for culture victory, it's way harder than any other victory type, and that seems like a problem. I was concerned when they mentioned the sliding goal line and it seems to absolutely be a problem.

Thoughts?

 

[Zet]

From what I've seen, culture victory is significantly harder than the other victory types. The diplomatic victory is the easiest, it almost happens by accident.

 

[Cymsdale]

No player would have given me open borders no matter how much gold I offered them, because it was basically giving the game to me. Stupid AI, grumble grumble.

We've seen what happens when the AI tries to "act like a player", and it is not pretty.

 

[AlazkanAssassin]

You could always burn their cities to the ground, slaughter their people, and wipe the memory of their civilization from the face of the world.

That would get them out of the way of your cultural victory.

 

[RealHuhn]

I won a culture victory yesterday, but it felt like the only reason I did was because the AI stupidly allowed open borders and trade routes into their cities (i used great musicians inside their borders for big boost, which I could not have done if they didn't give me open borders). If not for that fact, I never would have had enough tourism to get to them before somebody else got another victory. No player would have given me open borders no matter how much gold I offered them, because it was basically giving the game to me. Stupid AI, grumble grumble.

I was making something like +600 culture and only +250 tourism with hotels and airports everywhere and every damn slot of my great works buildings filled (except for a few writing/music spots) and I had at least 3-4 wonders specifically for their bonuses (like the louvre). There is no way in hell another civ doing the same thing would ever outpace me at my +600 culture and I would never outpace them if they were making anywhere near 600 culture. It seems like the only way to win a culture victory is if they let you do it by allowing open borders :\

I hadn't gotten to the internet yet, but that seems so late in the game that somebody could easily buy a diplomatic (economic) victory before you even get to the internet/national visitors center. Culture victories now seem more like "Tech victory light" since you absolutely NEED the internet in order to win with it.

If only 1 civ goes for culture victory, it's way easier than any other victory type. If two or more civs go for culture victory, it's way harder than any other victory type, and that seems like a problem. I was concerned when they mentioned the sliding goal line and it seems to absolutely be a problem.

Thoughts?

I think your biggest mistake was that you neglected your science rate too much. You basically didn't care about science for the first 200 turns. I mean you would think that science isn't as important in a cultural victory but apparentely, you have to rush to Renaissance and Hotels and stuff to be able to generate enough Tourism before culture per turn gets too high.

Not very intuitive but that's how it seems to work. I still think it's a lot of fun to win the cultural victory but you might be onto something here. Hard to tell after watching one game.

 

[Ulthwithian]

@OP: I think that the Cultural Victory needs a sub-Domination feel, because while some Civs are easy to overwhelm, there are a few (notably France and Brazil) that are very hard nuts to crack.

Culturally, at least.

So, as another poster in another thread said, carpet-bomb them. Brazil is very dangerous with this (for or against), though, if they have their Pracinhas. Fighting with them gets them closer to another Carnival, which doubles their Tourism.....

 

[Tyrvos]

One issue with it is that if you have just one other guy with huge culture output and a different ideology, the culture victory isn't happening before diplo or science.

 

[DeutschDachs]

Well the benefit now is at least you can go wide while building tourism. So if culture fails you you can still shoot for the science victory. You can always just killoff your cultu re rival too

 

[Bridger]

You could always burn their cities to the ground, slaughter their people, and wipe the memory of their civilization from the face of the world.

That would get them out of the way of your cultural victory.

This is actually what wound up happening lol. I invaded and took Rio from Brazil because he stole the Eifel tower out from under me and almost got broadway. He was the only other one going for a cultural victory.

 

[Bridger]

I think your biggest mistake was that you neglected your science rate too much. You basically didn't care about science for the first 200 turns. I mean you would think that science isn't as important in a cultural victory but apparentely, you have to rush to Renaissance and Hotels and stuff to be able to generate enough Tourism before culture per turn gets too high.

Not very intuitive but that's how it seems to work. I still think it's a lot of fun to win the cultural victory but you might be onto something here. Hard to tell after watching one game.

Not only for hotels, but for every useful culture wonder in the game. The only way I was generating as much culture as I was is because I had at least 5-6 wonders working at full bonus. That's why Culture seems to have become a "Science Victory Lite."

 

[Blitz Spearman]

I just got a science victory with Poland, and while none of the AIs was going for a cultural victory, I got a moment of panic when I unleashed all my Great Scientists and beelined all the way from the end of the modern era to the first tech of the information era in only one turn. I was not expecting the World Congress to enter in DiploVictory Mode all of a sudden, and I was just thinking that I would have to make something desperate like nuke a couple of CSs or sell all my resources/units/buildings to raise money for a diplowin, but then... I saw that between Shaka's warmongering and Dandolo's merchantmongering, there were not enough CS in the map for anyone to get a diplowin
I proceeded to buy a couple of CS just to be safe and waited for my sweet spaceship that arrived almost 100 turns later.

So, well, I guess diplomatic victories are not so easy anymore, specially if there are other human players, with spies and cash to at least disrupt you. Well, yeah, defensive culture is very powerful, but then again, looks like it is the same solution that we use when someone completes Apollo first. Just nuke them to hell and pretend that you were in the lead all along.

 

[Kwami]

I just got a science victory with Poland, and while none of the AIs was going for a cultural victory, I got a moment of panic when I unleashed all my Great Scientists and beelined all the way from the end of the modern era to the first tech of the information era in only one turn.

I'm still kind of sad that they didn't fix this kind of nonsense.

 

[Cymsdale]

Just about everyone in my current game seems to be going for tourism victory. It was kinda funny because everyone buy one supported the Art Funding I proposed at the world council. It lead to everyone sending me a message of approval, followed by many declarations of friendships, followed by approving messages for accepting all those declaration of friendships that everyone made with each other. The only civ that didn't want it likes me anyway because I'm their main trading partner, so the whole world is just one big kumbaya.

I have a feeling that things will get very interesting once ideologies come into play...

 

[porkdiesel]

After playing for more than I'd like to admit since release, I feel like to succeed in BNW, you shouldn't put all your eggs in one basket. What I mean is, you probably won't win easily without having some extra delegates and taking over a couple cities. Keep in mind they designed culture victory to kick-in late-game.

 

[pilot00]

Not only for hotels, but for every useful culture wonder in the game. The only way I was generating as much culture as I was is because I had at least 5-6 wonders working at full bonus. That's why Culture seems to have become a "Science Victory Lite."

Cant speak for BNW (but I think its the same still) but arent all vic types science in disguise?

 

[SamBC]

What I don't like is how hard it can be to achieve CV when another civ, not even going for CV, is super-wide. They don't get many policies because of the policy cost increase, but they produce more raw culture.

 

[gunnergoz]

It would be nice if folks asking questions and posing potential balance issues also describe what civ they are playing and what difficulty setting they are playing on, what map they are using and if they have any mods working.

 

[Cymsdale]

Cant speak for BNW (but I think its the same still) but arent all vic types science in disguise?

I think so. In a way, they are also all conquest in disguise, because that's the answer to a civ who is standing in your way for any victory condition. Culture is "uncrackable"? Nuke em. Holds to many votes? Nuke em. Has more space ship parts than you... well, maybe Gandhi is on to something here.

 

[pilot00]

I think so. In a way, they are also all conquest in disguise, because that's the answer to a civ who is standing in your way for any victory condition. Culture is "uncrackable"? Nuke em. Holds to many votes? Nuke em. Has more space ship parts than you... well, maybe Gandhi is on to something here.

Yeah I agree. THough war seems to have been toned down from what I read.