Is it going to be dumbed down?

[Ivan the Kulak]

Maybe corruption could be modelled in the early days by a delay in ordering a build. Takes those sailing ships a while to sail around the world with new orders. Your governor might have a general orders build list that he has to follow, and if you want to change it, it takes a few turns for it to go into effect.

Corruption really equals crime. People are stealing gold and goods. For the civ3 model, I always thought it might be interesting to have a special unit you could send to clean up a one-shield city. He might be successful, and then again, maybe not. Your corruption would decrease, but you might lose a citizen or two in the process (they go off to prison).

 

[dc82]

just because ur city is far away from the capital doesn't necessarily mean it'll be any more corrupt than a closer city - perhaps it may have been more possibly in more ancient eras when it took time to travel/communicate. at least by the industrial/modern age... at times u def. have almost more crime in the capital city than elsewhere!

the pollution model did need to get reworked too, 'cuz towards the end, it was just this pollution hopping game that constantly required ur workers to run around, sweeping every random piece of pollution, that wud slowly eat away at ur city food source.

 

[Ramalhão]

Pollution concept was very unfun and it was changed to health concept, which I don't know how it's working or if it's better. At least it will begin with the game, instead of appearing in 3rd age.

Corruption/waste concept was good, but it was also unfun sometimes. Having a huge amount of cities means most of them will produce almost nothing, unless get Wltkd, which reduces a little. It could be tweaked rather than removed, maybe some techs could reduce overall corruption/waste or increase OCN, to support more cities.

But I think this concept was removed due ring placements. Firaxis tried to avoid these placements in Conquests and patches. Any formula would lead to any ring placement, so maybe they thought it should be better to remove instead of trying to find solutions. Who knows?

One of really unfun things is naval and air power. They are so weak and should be improved. Ships from caravels and beyond should have better movement points, so a full navy power could be more useful. Not a word is said about these issues. And I'm sure I'm not the only one who wish a better naval and air forces.

 

[Himalia]

Your certainly not alone with your opinions on air and naval units.

 

[Sickman]

Pollution concept was very unfun and it was changed to health concept, which I don't know how it's working or if it's better.

Corruption/waste concept was good, but it was also unfun sometimes.

It could be tweaked rather than removed, maybe some techs could reduce overall corruption/waste or increase OCN, to support more cities.

One of really unfun things is naval and air power. They are so weak and should be improved. Ships from caravels and beyond should have better movement points, so a full navy power could be more useful.

Indeed the health system sounds very good compared to the old pollution system.

Corruption and waste in my books are part of human society and should be in the game, in a way or another. However the old system was just plain bad.

I agree that naval power was weak but air power was sometimes quite the opposite. Problem giving ships more movement is that no other ship isn't them able to stop them from sending troops into your territory because if they move too fast they will your ships won't reach ever in time in order to stop them. However this could be played down if the ships could patrol also in the opponent turn giving them chance to attack enemy just like interceptors do in air war.

AI should BTW learn to use both better.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

What they really need to do with Naval power is make it act like air power, your ships conduct Missions form bases with a chance of interception from enemy ships (or planes) stationed at other bases... (the problem is that range for ships is more than just a straightline path, a goto path needs to be used to calculate range and points of interception...so that a ship mission from Denmark to Italy can be intercepted at Gibraltar.

(I'd see the same thing for land units as well where a scout just allowed you to go a greater distance from home rather than faster.)

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Thats a good idea, in theory, Krikkitone-but then how would you conduct naval exploration? I think the easiest solution is simply to ramp up the movement rate of ALL naval units-whilst having variable movement cost for different 'naval tiles' to prevent very early naval vessels from performing excessive transcontinental voyages. Also, a good ZoC system for some naval vessels could allow for better interception of enemy navies who might otherwise sneak past courtesy of the higher movement rates mentioned above.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[eddie_verdde]

Thats a good idea, in theory, Krikkitone-but then how would you conduct naval exploration? I think the easiest solution is simply to ramp up the movement rate of ALL naval units (...)

open a thread on this issue please...in the "new ideas for CIv4" forum I opened a thread on this issue, because I always thaught that naval movement was underestimated, especially in ancient times. For instance, you have a trirreme and a legion, the trirreme has a movement of 3 and the legion has a movement of 1, which makes the trirreme 3 times faster than the legion, but I guess boats were much faster than this...

In addition, boats move so slow that most of the times it just doesn't compensate to make a surprising landfall on enemy territory...it's easier and quicker to send all the units by land in a straight forward path instead of travelling by sea and go all the way around by sea.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Well, as I have suggested elsewhere, the secret is to maybe triple-or even quadruple-the movement rate of triremes, but then make sea squares cost 2MP and Ocean squares cost 3MP. This way, triremes will be excellent for coastal transport, interdiction and raiding, but be hopeless the moment it tries to enter the open seas.
As you go, you then slowly add an IMC flag for sea, and then ocean, for later vessels. For modern navy vessels, give them the 'treat all terrain as roads' flag and even if their base MP's are not much higher than the trireme, they will have an effective movement rate of around 3-4 times greater than the trireme-on all naval terrains.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[eddie_verdde]

yes, I guess that would work...I don't know if they are going to change that, though...people are already used to the old system and this would be a radical change...

anyone heard about something related to this?

 

[Slax]

Corruption of some kind will still exist. I suspect it simply just won't be as crippling as before. Probaby less (or no) dependency on distance to anything. Just based on improvements, health and happiness? For corruption related improvements, there seems to the court house and police station.

 

[Darwin420]

I like the idea of resisting citizens, rather than wanton corruption. I actually think this will be more of a challenge, honestly. It's also nice because instead of the city completely shutting down, production slows; I wonder if there will be a penalty for crossing the picket line?

It will also be better because now far away colonies might actually be productive! Who would've thunk it?

 

[Ramalhão]

Is it possible health concept replace both pollution and corruption/waste concepts?

I was thinking about it: if one city has enough food to keep its population healthy, it produces the maximum possible; if there isn't enough health, the production will be reduced, to simulate sick workers not going to work.

I'm not sure if some review already stated it, but I think there was something written anywhere relating health and production.

 

[Serutan]

One really nice thing about the XML and Python features of
Civ IV is that, as I understand it, if you don't like how some
feature (eg health) works, you can simply mod it to behave as
you wish.

Just out of curiosity : How many of you who hated the corruption
modded your (bic/biq) files so that all cities were at least
somewhat useful?