is it just me or does dx10/11 mode suck for you too?

[Aos Si]

I have a pretty dcecent PC, ok it aint top o' the range but it's ok:

Windows 7 service pack 1
AMD 64bit dual core Athlon 2.7
1 gig Nvidia geforce 9200 (ok it aint great but it should be ok for a non real time game) DX10.
4GB DDR2 ram
Running on 9.0C+ or 10 as it's now commonly known, because Dx10 was awful.

But DX10/11 mode lags for me , in game it slows down badly? This is on single player atm so no connection issues although 10Mbps connection, fibre optic, runs at 9.7Mbps on average.

Wondering why?

Is this a conspiracy by graphics card companies to make anything that isn't a DX11 graphics card a pain in the ass, or should I take my tin foil hat off?

Annoying...

Not really a bug so couldn't post it there. PCs one year old I shouldn't have issues like this, or should I, or... Should... I... or would I..?

Personally I don't see the big woop between Dx 9 and 10/11 in this game. Can quite happilly play in that mode and it lags not at all. However I got my eye on you Microsoft, you done another Vista Dx10 fo shizzle thing where it only works for some users? Except this time it's me?

Tin foil hat on, I await your response.

Be aware if you are Reptillian or Illuminati, I will not respond! Death to the ubermensche.

 

[Dinhcara]

I have a pretty dcecent PC, ok it aint top o' the range but it's ok:

1 gig Nvidia geforce 9200 (ok it aint great but it should be ok for a non real time game)



Wondering why?

/facepalm

This card can barely handle dx9 nevermind dx10 or dx11.

 

[Aos Si]

/facepalm

This card can barely handle dx9 nevermind dx10 or dx11.

It is a DX10 card and it always could before. It was only with the advent of DX11 I ever had any problems in any game real time or otherwise. It should not be that hard up.

If the new graphics are that sophisticated that they need to make old cards obsolete so soon, then the graphics card companies are just milking us as is Microsoft.

I ran a real time game in at least 1600x1080 in every area easily with no lag until 3 months ago. I think you are exaggerating.

It's only with the advent of DX11 I have had any problems. I suspect that is the reason, the graphics card should run on low graphics settings in Dx10 when it always could run much higher before, 1280x1000 is appallingly slow. This is inexcusable, it seems like pure profit mongering to me. Sure 5 year old cards should run only on DX 9, but cards that aren't that old should run on low graphics settings. The fact mine can't is testament to the mercenary nature that everyone has come to accept from these people.

Update every year or die! You will obey your masters.

/facepalm you are just part of the problem. You accept that you will have to pay more and more money every year because they are milking you. You are a sucker. Sorry you just are.

 

[The_J]

Moderator Action: Thread moved.

The game runs in generall slow on DX10 machines.
Is probably due to the fact that it was programmed for either DX9 or 11, but not with 10 in mind.

 

[Dinhcara]

It's not just the graphics card either. If my knowledge is right, you're running on a processor that was last released at best 3 years ago; DDR2 memory was superseded by DDR3 memory 3-4 years ago. I'd say overall your PC's clock speeds are somewhere in the category of "horse and buggy" relative to todays new technology.

 

[Aos Si]

Moderator Action: Thread moved.

The game runs in generall slow on DX10 machines.
Is probably due to the fact that it was programmed for either DX9 or 11, but not with 10 in mind.

Good answer but why not account for so many users?

They are all doing this why? What need?

 

[Aos Si]

It's not just the graphics card either. If my knowledge is right, you're running on a processor that was last released at best 3 years ago; DDR2 memory was superseded by DDR3 memory 3-4 years ago. I'd say overall your PC's clock speeds are somewhere in the category of "horse and buggy" relative to todays new technology.

I don't think the memory is an issue since my processor never pushes above 50% memory, nor does it even push much above 50% on the CPU.

Like most people you have just come to accept that if you are not rich enough to afford to buy a new computer, or upgrade almost everything every 2 years then you must lose out.

They are milking us all for profit. I'd get used to it as long as we accept this profit mongering from MS et al then we will all lose.

The tech isn't even that better or faster it's just suckers who think it is or needs to be. It doesn't you are being played by people. They could easily make it like it used to be a broad base for all users to play 5 year old PC or not, they chose not to, because basically how will they make money otherwise?

Ask a person who works in the industry if games need the bells and whistles? Go on, it is just pure disingenuous greed. They could cater to lower end specs if they wanted, they chose not to deliberately. Welcome to the future of PCs.

 

[Dinhcara]

Larger companies have a much easier time lowering the specs on their games versus smaller companies.

Case in point: A recent developer commentary to which I listened.

The developers of Magicka, Arrowhead Studios out of Sweden, would have loved to lower the system requirements for their small game. Why couldn't they? Man-hours. They are unable to employ QA/QC areas of their company like so many of the larger developers can.

And no, unlike most people, I have taken it upon myself to make sure that my hobby of PC gaming is not left behind due to technology advancements. If you want to play games in the current generation at a level that is acceptable performance-wise, you should be prepared to keep up with the technology. Every 2 years (an eternity by electronics engineering standards) for a new machine or new upgrades for certain parts should be sufficient, and it has been for me.

 

[tokala]

Small wonder that a 9200 is not capable of running the dx10/11 mode, that thing is an IGP with a performance well below a "minimum" 7900GS
You should be happy that the DX9 mode works fine, not ranting that the DX10/11 isn't

And no, CPU and memory are not your problem.

It appears that indeed Firaxis did a good job in making Civ5 running well enough on even pretty slow video cards in DX9 mode, they just totally botched the DX10/11 mode on nVidia DX10 hardware.
According to the Steam hardware survey, around 40% of gamer video cards are nVidia DX10 cards, so the question is indeed, WHY?

I'm usually not a fan of conspiracy theories, but considering the recent "post-mortem" in Game Developers magazine where Firaxis praised the "generous collaboration from ATI, Intel, and nVidia assisting development on new hardware" one could suspect some sinister motives here


On a more serious note, buying a carefully selected $100 video card every 2-3 years should be enough to play all games on settings were they still look pretty good compared to "maxed out".

 

[Aos Si]

Larger companies have a much easier time lowering the specs on their games versus smaller companies.

Case in point: A recent developer commentary to which I listened.

The developers of Magicka, Arrowhead Studios out of Sweden, would have loved to lower the system requirements for their small game. Why couldn't they? Man-hours. They are unable to employ QA/QC areas of their company like so many of the larger developers can.

And no, unlike most people, I have taken it upon myself to make sure that my hobby of PC gaming is not left behind due to technology advancements. If you want to play games in the current generation at a level that is acceptable performance-wise, you should be prepared to keep up with the technology. Every 2 years (an eternity by electronics engineering standards) for a new machine or new upgrades for certain parts should be sufficient, and it has been for me.

Why? Why should we be forced to upgrade everything every two years.

It caters for old 9.0 cards, and 11 cards but not for DX10 you contradict yourself.

Why would they do this unless they are just exploiting people with more money than sense?

So very old cards can play but in betweeen old and new cannot? Oh come on, this downright profiteering by some companies.

Obviously there is something going on here, I just question that it's some weird coincidence.

I for one am not going to upgrade every two years just to feed some corporate ass and or some shareholders who think everyone has really short attention spans, and can't bare to go without the latest shiny for five minutes. You others can look out for yourselves, I think you are being manipulated though. I will upgrade every five years because at least that way sooner or later they will cater to my card. If not I'm open to any reasonable explanation for me being dumped on the refuse pile..?

In 2 years they will only cater to 10 and 12 and then you'll be forced to upgrade yet again unless like me you have an old card.

Now either Microsoft have once again ballsed up their new DX software as they did with Vista and DX 10. Or this isn't just the usual incompetence its driven by something else.

I'm willing to believe some companies aren't pandering to MS Dx tech and or graphics card companies. I'm still not willing to buy the excuses for this though.

 

[Aos Si]

Small wonder that a 9200 is not capable of running the dx10/11 mode, that thing is an IGP with a performance well below a "minimum" 7900GS
You should be happy that the DX9 mode works fine, not ranting that the DX10/11 isn't

And no, CPU and memory are not your problem.

It appears that indeed Firaxis did a good job in making Civ5 running well enough on even pretty slow video cards in DX9 mode, they just totally botched the DX10/11 mode on nVidia DX10 hardware.
According to the Steam hardware survey, around 40% of gamer video cards are nVidia DX10 cards, so the question is indeed, WHY?

I'm usually not a fan of conspiracy theories, but considering the recent "post-mortem" in Game Developers magazine where Firaxis praised the "generous collaboration from ATI, Intel, and nVidia assisting development on new hardware" one could suspect some sinister motives here


On a more serious note, buying a carefully selected $100 video card every 2-3 years should be enough to play all games on settings were they still look pretty good compared to "maxed out".

Why indeed.

Considering it seems that this is much more common across the software board and is not something that is only happening on single games. I have to ask how convenient that many software designers suddenly lost the ability to programme competently?

3 months ago I was quite happily playing a first person in 1600x1200 with all high settings then suddenly overnight I am landed in lag land, on lego brick graphics settings, where the card isn't even running much of the SVGA settings graphics in 800x600? It's awfully suspicious if you ask me...

What changed in this time between midnight 3 months ago and the next morning, was there a new DX version and some swanky new graphics cards perhaps? Did games just stop catering for these cards by accident?

I've seen the improvements too, they really don't justify the expense tbh anyway. It's like painting go faster stripes on a banger. Sure it runs slightly faster, and there are some nice shiny water effects and lighting improvements. But frankly the difference isn't enough to make it impossible to cater to mid range cards. Hell the improvements don't even really make it worth upgrading. The tech is bottle necking, I wonder if this isn't the reason they are resorting to ever increasingly shady methods to force people to upgrade?

A 64 bit 2.7Ghz Athlon is not old and slow any more than DDR 2 memory is or ever was slow, in fact performance wise provided the processor isn't maxed out - and I have yet to find a game that can do it in any graphics settings - its performance is more than adequate to run any new software without a problem, in fact if you look at most recommended specs on games dual cores are often on it, and this is a 64 bit model so it's a bit better than a Pentium dual core. This is purely a Dx10 issue with particular cards, the processor and ram have nothing to do with it. It is a myth that slight increases in performance somehow magically make everything better anyway. The perceivable enhancements are becoming scanter and scanter between processor generations. Two year old stuff without a shiny new number is not suddenly overnight almost defunct. It's propaganda and you are buying into the hype.

If you want to throw your money away fine, but don't feed me this tech myth that its all magically incredibly better every year, and in two years tech struggles to even come close to the new performance. This isn't true it's just the existing tech is becoming more refined; the processor speed increments are slowing, the ram speeds are reaching a peak; what they are doing now is tweaking existing technology to try and get the last bit of umph out of it. We all know that the limits of electron based technology are getting ever nearer. Smoke and mirrors is not going to change the bottle neck situation that is approaching. Only quantum (light processor) technology can dramatically increase performance, and that is still decades away, so far the most they have managed is a small ion trap chip running at -120oC so there's no help there as yet.

/tinfoil hat off.

 

[Shurdus]

Aos si, you may not like that you need to upgrade to gave decent performance, but it is the truth. Whatever theories or views you may have on that are not important, nor is this (sub)forum the place to discuss this.

 

[Aos Si]

Aos si, you may not like that you need to upgrade to gave decent performance, but it is the truth. Whatever theories or views you may have on that are not important, nor is this (sub)forum the place to discuss this.

No nothing that is worryingly apposite is important. Quite.

No of course if we offend the graphics card manufacturers they may riot. Please who are you scared of?

This is just silly, technology is slowing almost exponentially and yet the rate at which we have to upgrade is increasing exponentially. Why is no one surprised or cynical about this? Because people are quite happy to buy bs as long as some shark paints a go faster stripe on it.

Whilst my tin foil hat rants may be somewhat tongue in cheek there is a disturbing trend in fobbing people off with products that aren't exponentially better and exploiting your market for sheer profit. I don't give a crap who knows that. I just think its about time people said something about this nonsensical exploitation of markets.

Civ does not need to be run on Dx 9 or 11 alone, there is simply no justifiable reason to alienate so many users by anyone. I'm still waiting to receive a good answer to why they are doing this in many games? This is suspiciously the tip of the ice burg. Also its ironic that alienating people from markets will actual reduce the user base, or it should if everyone weren't born every minute, if you know what I mean. You're all buying into the hype, I wouldn't. It's lame. Just how far will companies exploit their user base or force upgrades on people that don't really need them. in order to please these corporate scheisters any way and does it make any sense to do so? All valid questions. What's realy funny is that when technology was increasing at an exponential rate companies didn't do this, ask yourself why? Why do we now have to upgrade every 2 years instead of 5 when the technology isn't getting all that much better atm? I mean generally, graphics is a side issue.

Whatever happened to the customer is always right anyway and again, just who are you so scared of? The political capitalist industrial machine, what the hell of those idiots done for us lately except plunge us into recessions. Gamer orientated companies/graphics card/MS don't have much political clout (well not in my country), whilst attacking banks might be worryingly difficult to do, attacking poor service and exploitation is a duty of any consumer. Especially when none of these shady businessmen is going to give you straight answer to a good question. It's not a crime to demand you not have to upgrade every 2 years because people are worryingly obsessed with shiny magical nothing, because of course all gaming is about graphics isn't it?

 

[Shurdus]

Again, you may feel that way but that had hardly anything to do with anything. Even if it were true, I do not feel like discussing conspiracy theories with you.

 

[Sjru]

@Aos_si: The point here is that you could complaint, but neither me or you or anybody can stop companies from doing that: simply because we're trapped in the system: If you want to play Civ5 and your machine doesn't handle it, you have 2 choices: Buy better hardware or stick with what you got.
Most people who find that they have problem with their hardware, simply resort to buy new hardware, they won't just "strike" and forfeit buying their "fixes" because they're in.

Larger companies which have a big amount of customers hardly ever cares about them. See EA and Sims: They just keep releasing expansions and stuff that add little to the game, and as result their customers are angry. But they buy the game anyways, since they like it. They're milking their customers, but the customers, little can do against it.

Same with NVIdia and ATI: They will release new cards once in a while, while companies release games that require more horsepower to run them. If you like games, you'll end buying their stuff. You may complain, and chose not to, but they would not lose anything. Only if a significant amount of customers stand up against this behaviour they MIGHT do something, but no organized group stands up, thing are going to stay like this.

Another thing to notice: About 90% of legit customers of gaming companies are located in Europe and US (And another countries like Japan).
That's because, games generally are U$S valued. Most non-european countries and non-developed countries have a currency that is devalued compared the dollar, meaning that legal games on those countries are usually twice as expensive as in Europe and Us, usually resulting on piracy.
The result?: Milking from legit customers. The most reliable way for companies to get the most money.

What you can do?: There is nothing people can do, but complain. Unless you become an hero on twitter, youtube or facebook gathering a lot of attention and from the mass media. Only then you might be listened.

Other thing: You complain that your video card cannot play civ5 fine on dx10. Everyone says "buy a new card, tweak your sys, play on dx9". You have few choices: Buy a new card1. find the solution within your system: I doubt that really your video card is so old that cannot properly play civ5 on wathever dx10. Find, tweak, manipulate, destroy your config until you find the appropiate one and go play dx10, else update yourself to dx11?. 2. keep complaining, certainly companies are going to listen to your problems.

PD: Don't write/speak/debate about the lizardmen and illuminati. They'll investigate upon you. Seriously.

 

[Aos Si]

@Aos_si: The point here is that you could complaint, but neither me or you or anybody can stop companies from doing that: simply because we're trapped in the system: If you want to play Civ5 and your machine doesn't handle it, you have 2 choices: Buy better hardware or stick with what you got.
Most people who find that they have problem with their hardware, simply resort to buy new hardware, they won't just "strike" and forfeit buying their "fixes" because they're in.

Larger companies which have a big amount of customers hardly ever cares about them. See EA and Sims: They just keep releasing expansions and stuff that add little to the game, and as result their customers are angry. But they buy the game anyways, since they like it. They're milking their customers, but the customers, little can do against it.

Same with NVIdia and ATI: They will release new cards once in a while, while companies release games that require more horsepower to run them. If you like games, you'll end buying their stuff. You may complain, and chose not to, but they would not lose anything. Only if a significant amount of customers stand up against this behaviour they MIGHT do something, but no organized group stands up, thing are going to stay like this.

Another thing to notice: About 90% of legit customers of gaming companies are located in Europe and US (And another countries like Japan).
That's because, games generally are U$S valued. Most non-european countries and non-developed countries have a currency that is devalued compared the dollar, meaning that legal games on those countries are usually twice as expensive as in Europe and Us, usually resulting on piracy.
The result?: Milking from legit customers. The most reliable way for companies to get the most money.

What you can do?: There is nothing people can do, but complain. Unless you become an hero on twitter, youtube or facebook gathering a lot of attention and from the mass media. Only then you might be listened.

Other thing: You complain that your video card cannot play civ5 fine on dx10. Everyone says "buy a new card, tweak your sys, play on dx9". You have few choices: Buy a new card1. find the solution within your system: I doubt that really your video card is so old that cannot properly play civ5 on wathever dx10. Find, tweak, manipulate, destroy your config until you find the appropiate one and go play dx10, else update yourself to dx11?. 2. keep complaining, certainly companies are going to listen to your problems.

PD: Don't write/speak/debate about the lizardmen and illuminati. They'll investigate upon you. Seriously.

No you are trapped in the system because you refuse to take the red pill. You are happy with being exploited, because you are happy that you can be.

The most powerful weapon the consumer has is complaints.

Great you love being exploited. Why though is a question.

And who are you working for the Lizard men or the Illuminati. I was going to say Jews then but someone would probably report me for being racist even if I am being ironic.

I can't afford a new card I am shafted by money hungry gimps.

Do you have any idea just how much some things cost in some countries? For example a months subscription to a MMORPG costs 3 or 4 months wages in some countries, a graphics card, well a once in 5 year buy if you are lucky enough to have a decent job. This is just a load of dicks restricting their market to a load of gullible fools. Because man a bigger yellow go faster stripe is just so cool dude!

Have you ever wondered why only 10% of the worlds population play games on line or games for that matter? Please don't google the actual number I am not interested. It's because these simpletons haven't worked out that 7 billion people is a better market to exploit. They're morons who only care about themselves, stop defending them. These people are idiots who are only happy when the shareholders in their ass end of the world country are happy. Play the world? F off? Play the richer nations. I'm alright Jack!

We're in a world recession caused by being exploited, the last thing we want to do is encourage these morons. Wake up and smell the coffee.

why don't the people just say enough is enough? We are not going to be exploited by wankers any more? How hard would that be?

Just how much money do you have to waste on companies with tiny numbers of employees comparatively, that don't need to be indulged before you realise your hard earned cash could be better spent on things that actually are worth the money?

Oh and btw since I mentioned this my game has started lagging on Dx9 settings all minimum, this happened relatively recently. I'm not drawing any conclusions; believe me I'm not even joking either, but tin foil hat back on.

Btw I'm not beefing about Firaxis or any game company - the insidious little money hungry cretins have many people by the balls - they are just a symptom of the disease.

 

[The_J]

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Thread closed.