Is it just me, or is losing wonder races extremely profitable?

[GenericKen]

The first time I lost a wonder race in civ4, I thought the cash they gave you was a nice little touch to remove some of the micromanagement sting of wonder races, but now I wonder if it's not slightly abusive.

I was playing a game with an industrious/org religion and I managed to lose out on 4 early-mid wonders, two of which I had bonus resources for, giving me like 2.5x production. However, with the recouped cash (like 500 a pop) and a shrine, I went 100% science the rest of the game.

I haven't looked at the math to determine whether or not it was really degenerate, but looking back, I think it may have been sketchy.

 

[Pfeffersack]

Hmm, interesting question.I'm not sure about the base ration of conversion, I guess it is like it is with wealth production.If you add boni as being industrious or having stone/marble, things might change, because you accumulate a lot of hammers, which you couldn't get the normal way in the same time.OTOH, you have to consider that you waste turns in which you could have built more improtant stuff like military units or settlers.

 

[BlackMage]

I'm pretty sure it's 1 gold per hammer you have accrued towards the wonder, or close to it.

 

[Oggums]

I don't mind losing an early wonder race at all. I'd rather have the wonder in all cases, but the $$ is a nice runner up prize and allows you to crank that slider up to 100%. 400-500 gold is huge at the beginning of a game.

 

[HiroHito]

and what would you do with so much gold in early game !?

 

[Pfeffersack]

As he said, running science on 100% as long a possible.Be sure, the gold is used up quickly this way if your empire becomes bigger.And unit upgrades cost a lot of money, too.

 

[Oggums]

With 500 gold, I run 100% science and get catapults, then capture more cities until I'm at 0% science again.

 

[Thalassicus]

Wonder refunds give you 1g per hammer of output. So if you're an Industrious civ with access to the resource, it gives you 2.5 gold per hammer; 5 times the amount of the Wealth process.

I do this all the time with the less useful wonders like the Angkor Wat or Spiral Minaret. Start building the wonder in a city, then cancel production a turn before it finishes. The AI builds it somewhere else, and you get 500 gold for maybe 10 turns of production.

Another good wonder is Stonehenge if you're Cultural with access to Stone. The AI builds this pretty late; by that time I spend maybe 4 turns in a city to build it, with a 125 - gold refund or so.

It's a big incentive to start wonders, even if you know you won't be able to finish them. A while down the line you'll get a refund that allows you to run at max science for quite some time.

 

[Napo981]

Guess it's kind of a exploit.

Hope they'll fix it in a patch!

 

[eumaies]

It's a great point/strategy, but i don't think it's broken at all.

Industrial is supposed to get you something good -- if you don't get stone/marble or just end up screwed to getting your wonders, you deserve a consolation prize. Several thousand early game dollars is great, but a philosophical civ can get a dozen more Great people than you in the game, and that's pretty useful too. I think industrial deserves a "gurantee" on it's bonus.

 

[Aku Armoton]

I'd rather have the wonder, since I usually try to get cultural victory. And Industrial trait is way too overpowered.

 

[Kemal]

I don't think it's exploitative at all, a hammer should be worth much more than a single gold coin when it comes to improving your empire and your situation in the game.

And you don't even get the markets/grocers/banks multiplication over the lost wonder gold, plus the hammers only get converted when the AI completes the wonder, not directly on a per-hammer-basis, which is the case when building wealth.

 

[zafyro]

I really don´t see industrial nor GP consolation prize overpowered. Starting wonders to get economic prizes instead doesnt sound to me like a good strategy.
About GP
I´d rather had the piramids instead than 500 gold when i´m about to build them. Same with most wonders. In fact the only chance I can see this to be of use is if you have the piramids so you can buy production. Being able to run in red is not better then the wonder efect.

About Industrious,
Comparing it with organiced or spiritual it might be stronger [though half prize courthouses is great and a greater expansion is allowed... and no anarchy can be of great use in the end game when you can swich goverment and religion as you swich your jacket], comparing it with anythig else it is not. Mostly on higher dificulty levels [where industrious advantage fights against AI building bonusses]. +2 health and half price granaries, +2 cultural [on early stages] and half price theatres [for newly conquered cities], 10% stronger units, or financial [coins gong wild¡].

 

[Shillen]

I think it should give the same amount of gold as wealth does and it should subtract any bonus hammers you got for having a resource or being industrious. I think there's something wrong when you start building a wonder in hopes that someone beats you to it so you can get gold. Losing a wonder should always be a bad thing.

 

[Stormphoenix]

I got 1500 gold for losing the Partheon on the last turn to another civ Ahd it building in 2 cities to maximize gold output

 

[DaveMcW]

It's not profitable compared to working cottages instead of hills, but it is profitable compared to building wealth.

I think wealth should be increased to a full 1 gold per hammer so you don't need to micromanage failed wonders for maximum income.

 

[rabottens]

Yeah if you want wonder cash the way to do it is pick a wonder you know you can't possibly get and start working on it in 4 or 5 cities when your opponent lands it watch the denari roll in. Is this an exploit or does Santa come more than one time a year?

 

[Depravo]

Well, for a start you can only have one of each wonder building at a time...

 

[alerum68]

On the flip side, when you build a wonder the AI gets the gold. It may be a good idea that after you get a wonder to go shopping... you maybe able to trade a tech for the gold, if you have a nice tech lead on the AI.

edit: Something else I found you can do is start building a wonder in one city, swap it to something else, and start building the wonder in another city. When your second city builds the wonder, you get the gold that was locked up in the hammers from the first building...

 

[obsolete]

I used to build wonders just to stop the ai from getting them, I don't do that now anymore with ALL of them.