Is it possible to make a worker unit NOT consume a supply point?

[CivWarGamer]

Is it possible to make a worker unit NOT consume a supply point?

 

[whoward69]

From the Military Overview code, the "supply used" value is just the number of units the player has

    Controls.SupplyUseValue:SetText(pPlayer:GetNumUnits());

so I doubt it's possible

 

[Pazyryk]

In the units.xml you have: MilitarySupport, ExtraMaintenanceCost and NoMaintenance. I always assumed that setting the latter to true would do what you want. But I haven't tested this.

 

[whoward69]

"Maintenance" is the per-turn gold cost of your units, "supply" is the number of units your population can support - two different (but related) concepts

 

[Pazyryk]

Thanks. I've never been very clear on this, or on military vs non-military support. Is this how it works?:

If a civ is at or below supply limit, then there is no unit maintenance (military or non-military). If a unit is above supply limit, then additional military units cost military maintenance, and additional civilian units cost non-military maintenance. (I still don't get it I'm afraid.)

 

[PawelS]

I think military and non-military support is a leftover from Civ4 and doesn't have any meaning in Civ5. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[CivWarGamer]

Thanks, but yeah, no luck it looks like.

 

[Pazyryk]

I'm still very confused about this. Does a unit with NoMaintenance=true count against supply or not? If I have exactly 100 units that all have NoMaintenance=true, does that mean that I pay 0 but my very next unit (with default NoMaintenance=false) will cost something? And does MilitarySupport have any effect?

 

[CivWarGamer]

I'm still very confused about this. Does a unit with NoMaintenance=true count against supply or not? If I have exactly 100 units that all have NoMaintenance=true, does that mean that I pay 0 but my very next unit (with default NoMaintenance=false) will cost something? And does MilitarySupport have any effect?

I'm actually a bit confused on it as well. I assume there is no monetary maintenance per turn for those units, but yet they still consume a supply point.

 

[PawelS]

As said above, maintenance and supply are two different concepts. You pay maintenance for all units, except those that have NoMaintenance=true, or cost no maintenance for other reasons, like the policy that eliminates the cost for garrisoned units. And when you are above your supply limit, your production is decreased.

Btw I think the supply limit in the base game is waay to high, is allows you to have "carpets of doom" in middle and late game without hitting the limit.

 

[Pazyryk]

You pay maintenance for all units, except those that have NoMaintenance=true, or cost no maintenance for other reasons, like the policy that eliminates the cost for garrisoned units.

Except for a certain number that are free, based on empire size, correct? This is the concept that I am apparently confusing with supply, I guess -- not the maintenance itself but the free units you get based on empire size. But this is totally separate from "supply", I take it.

And when you are above your supply limit, your production is decreased.

Really? I guess I am totally ignorant. I missed this game element altogether (perhaps because it is hard to reach this?). Does it have any other effects besides reducing production?

 

[whoward69]

Like most of the formulae in the game, a lot of it is guesswork

When you have more units than your "supply", production in all cities is decrease by 10% per unit over to a max of 70% - you also get a red ! in the top bar to the right of the culture numbers

Supply is a function of difficulty + cities + population
Combat units, settlers and workers all count against supply (not sure about missiles)

Maintenance is a function of units less free units from difficulty less free units from policies (and no doubt some other "fudge factors") but it increses over time (game turns)



The easiest way to play with the numbers is via FireTuner by plopping units down

 

[PawelS]

Except for a certain number that are free, based on empire size, correct? This is the concept that I am apparently confusing with supply, I guess -- not the maintenance itself but the free units you get based on empire size. But this is totally separate from "supply", I take it.

AFAIK there are no free units based on empire size, but one of the policies makes a number of units free. Also, the maintenance cost is not linear, the cost per unit goes up if you have more units, and also (according to the tooltip) it goes up over time.

The following defines seem to control the costs, but I don't know the exact formula:

INITIAL_GOLD_PER_UNIT_TIMES_100
UNIT_MAINTENANCE_GAME_MULTIPLIER
UNIT_MAINTENANCE_GAME_EXPONENT_DIVISOR

Really? I guess I am totally ignorant. I missed this game element altogether (perhaps because it is hard to reach this?). Does it have any other effects besides reducing production?

When you are over the limit, an icon (a "!" in a red circle) appears on the top bar indicating the reduced production. It's -10% production in all cities for every unit above the limit (it's hard to reach the limit in vanilla game, but I played a modified version of the game where the limit was much lower, and I got this icon sometimes).

Edit: whoward69 was much faster than me, I was doing some in-game testing before posting and haven't noticed it.

Edit2: This thread contains the unit maintenance formula, as well as lots of other interesting information.

 

[Pazyryk]

Thanks to both of you! Made no difference not understanding this to play, but it helps a lot for modding.

 

[CivWarGamer]

Btw I think the supply limit in the base game is waay to high, is allows you to have "carpets of doom" in middle and late game without hitting the limit.

Completely agree, which is why I cranked it way down in my mod to make for a challenge. The cool thing is the AI can still produce butt loads of units.