Is man 'programmed' to seek a 'god'?

[civ2]

themanuneed
SOMEONE definitely "made up" Judaism - so it doesn't matter what was the name of that person, why not call him Abraham?

Ziggy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monotheism
According to the Torah, the very FIRST man knew G-d personally - why does it make you wonder that SOME nations "remembered" this, even though in a twisted way???
Henotheism and monolatrism ARE NOT the "true" monotheism!!!
In Judaism, it's not just "One G-d" - it's "there's nothing BUT G-d", everything is considered to be part of G-d, to the extent of questioning the very existence of anything BUT G-d.
"Creation from nothing" is THE concept to support this idea - if you come from nothing, you ARE nothing.
Also, what we usually translate as "nothing", could be seen as a hint-reference to "Nothing" as in "un-material", this being an allusion to G-d Himself.
Aka everything comes DIRECTLY from G-d, not that He is "looking form the side".
The so-called pre-Judaism "monotheisms" were simply different forms of polytheism, where you have less (or even just one) deity - BUT it's still "nature-bound", and therefore PAGANISTIC.
The Jewish monotheism clearly speaks of G-d Who is beyond Nature, yet present in it.
Oh, and just read about Zoroastrianism:
It's not even monotheism!
They have their own "Devil", who is SEPARATE from the "Good Side".
Not so in Judaism - NOTHING (and I mean absolutely NOTHING, 1000%) is separated from G-d.
Not to mention, there are no "enemies" of G-d, that's polytheistic on the spot!
SUMMARY:
1. There's only One G-d in Judaism, no "helpers" nor "enemies".
2. More over, there is no separate existence "outside" G-d.
3. World exists "inside" G-d, yet not affecting Him in the slightest; there's no ("change") difference for Him, whether there is a world or not.

 

[El_Machinae]

It's quite likely that Abraham is nearly entirely invented. The Israelites slotted him into their mythological history well after they'd forgotten their actual history. They placed him in their myths as 'before Moses', which means that they were holding the story of Abraham in oral tradition long enough that they'd lost where he was actually from and who he was. When the stories were finally codified into text, no one knew the source of the Abraham stories. They wanted him to be a patriarch (which really could have been true), but didn't know how he'd relate to the collapse of the Canaan city states.

 

[T-mun]

To me, God is not even a conversation topic.

I did have a religious education, then felt really upset by many aspects, first of all being the blindness of believers on so many subjects, second one being all the superstitions, such as writing G-d instead of God. Or believing in angels, demons and such.

If I say "God doesn't exist", then religious people would consider me as a troll (or a dummy). But all along the pages of discussions of such subjects on many forums, these people say "I know" instead of "I believe", talk about their beliefs as existing things, "there is proof of this", "some non-historical celebrity said so"... and to me THIS is trolling. Because it kills the discussion. Just like answering "just because" when someone asks "why?".

BTW Zoroastrism IS a monotheism, you should read more carefully. And your answers don't come from yourself, they come from your education.

Now back to the subject of this thread, if we were programmed to seek God, we would all seek God, wouldn't we ? Well, I'm not. To me that's all educational. Of course we all look for answers. But with an open mind, not formated to look in only one direction, we cannot say "this is the answer". Because it would shut the door to an other possible answer. Wouldn't you be interested in an other answer that would be closer to the truth ? Or just an other vision of life ? I mean, in the middle age humanity went back to very strange ideas, like "the earth is flat" and such, and we could be really far beyond if we hadn't made such a big step backward. Look at what the Egyptians knew. Look at what the Greeks knew. Look at what the Romans knew. Then look at what the Crusaders believed in, those barbarians who rased Constantinople. Would you like to go back to that period ? That's what frightens me the most about religion: the obscurantism that is linked to it. If we all believed in God as the only creator, most of the progress we've achieved in biology and medicine would be forbidden.

 

[civ2]

Humans have free choice to to evil instead of good - and they utilize it to the full extent.
This has nothing to do with G-d's existence or not.
As of "G-d", it's the same "superstition" as "Your Majesty/Highness".

EM
Why everyone is so eager to see Jews of Moses' time as mindless idiots???
Also, why everyone is so eager to deny the power of strong oral tradition???
The fact EUROPEANS didn't have one, doesn't automatically exclude OTHERS to have it.

theman
As if ANYBODY is basing his opinion on "his own info"...
Oh, and ever heard of "limitations of human intellect"???
Oh, wait, nowadays there's a CULT of "I know everything myself".

 

[T-mun]

I personnally don't call anyone "your majesty". Nor do I call some hypothetic big boss in heaven "my Lord"

Oral tradition is a nice thing, and many times there are proof of these things that can be found. If there's no evidence, then it's probably mythology.

The irritating things with the "chosen people" is that they have all the good stuf We want a european Abraham too! Do you think people are just jealous ? That would be a bit childish. A bit.
I have a lot of respect for religious people (even if I seem a bit sarcastic), as long as they respect other ways of thinking. To me, a Buddhist monk deserves as much consideration as a priest, as long as he's as tolerant as I am.

 

[El_Machinae]

Now back to the subject of this thread, if we were programmed to seek God, we would all seek God, wouldn't we ?

Well, we can overcome our programming. We're also programmed to find spicy food painful and bitter foodstuffs gross. But we train ourselves to like beer and hotwings. It's not that we 'put up' with the bitter and the pain because we need the calories, either. We like it.

But, we're still programmed to have these sensations, the urge to avoid pain and bitter. That said, I think that (like others), 'the urge to seek God' is actually the manifestation of deeper programming, which is why these symptoms occur in people other than the merely religious.

 

[katipunero]

Split from Plotinus thread,
Is man 'programmed' to seek a god? By which i mean is there anything inside one's psyche which demands such a consideration? Or is the idea of a god something attributable hazily to some past stage of human development, which will be negated in following aeons?
I lean towards the first claim, although i do not accept that it is in tautology with the claim that god does exist, much less an external god.

I want to write more, but it is an innate need to stand back and observe if there is interest on all this before dedicating more time to the question. After all we already have a prestigious theism and antitheism thread in ot

human beings do not actively seek God because we're programmed to do so. rather, the hardwired genes in us are imperfect, incoherent and in a maelstrom of competing states that the existence of God becomes a necessary tool for us to gain a sense of order and pattern in our lives.

God would have been a nice kit for humanity overall. Sadly, people took advantage of God by annexing religion to it.

 

[Winner]

No, you're just being impolite. It is your opinion, and nothing more than that.

No, it's a fact with about the same certainty as that there is no tooth fairy.

There is evidence out there, look it up... I'm not going to try to convince you, nor should you try to convince me, as it comes down to personal choice/thinking/what have you.

No, there is no evidence, period. I am sorry that some people choose to believe in something which clearly isn't true, but that doesn't make their delusions any less absurd.

 

[T-mun]

Well, we can overcome our programming. We're also programmed to find spicy food painful and bitter foodstuffs gross. But we train ourselves to like beer and hotwings. It's not that we 'put up' with the bitter and the pain because we need the calories, either. We like it.

I don't I have a bad stomach and had to stop everything that's irritating it in order to stop dangerously losing weight. Now I only eat things that are good for me, not things that I want to eat anyway. And sometimes I eat them anyway. And suffer. Wait, that seems to be very close to how I react to religious beliefs

God would have been a nice kit for humanity overall. Sadly, people took advantage of God by annexing religion to it.

I couldn't have said it better. Amen to that

 

[civ2]

theman
I meant that "G-d" is the same type of gesture of awe/reverence as is "your Majesty".
Though the reason is very simple - to avoid the slightest "mentioning in vain".

katipunero
Religion is not bad, unless explicitly so (like most ancient polytheistic cults were - human sacrifices etc).
What IS bad, is when PERSONAL desires are PRETENDED to be G-d's ones.
Same goes for POLITICS.
The idea of people ruling people IS good, until "some become more equal than the others".
What G-d truly wants - it UNITY between people.
There is a very useful idea brought in Jewish texts:
The difference between generations from Adam to Noah and then from Noah to Abraham - about both it is said that they were "constantly doing evil", yet the first resulted in a Flood that killed almost entire humanity, whereas the latter "gave its merits to Abraham".
And the commentaries explain this inconsistency:
Generations from Adam to Noah were robbers and murderers - thus not meriting nothing at all.
Generations from Noah to Abraham were also rebels against G-d, ultimately building the Tower of Babel "to fight G-d".
Yet, they were very friendly one to another, like a big family (or rather, bee hive), thus that friendship and unity between people did gain them merits.
Except that all was done for the totally wrong reason - and thus the merit was withhold until Abraham came and directed the attention of people towards G-d.
Abraham also was an embodiment of love for people, thus he merited the results of the "wrongly utilized" love of the generation of the Tower.
The lesson from here is obvious:
Even if people unite for WRONG reasons, but if they show each other true friendship and unity - they gain merit.
What's left then - is only to be able to utilize it.
So - RELIGION (as a way to unite people) is good, what is bad - is the wrong ways to use it.

 

[holy king]

i have yet to see las vegas destroyed by the wrath of your god.

 

[Perfection]

What G-d truly wants - it UNITY between people.

Last time we tried that God knocked down our tower.

 

[civ2]

Funny.

 

[Winner]

i have yet to see las vegas destroyed by the wrath of your god.

If he does it, I might even sacrifice something to him.

 

[T-mun]

theman
I meant that "G-d" is the same type of gesture of awe/reverence as is "your Majesty".
Though the reason is very simple - to avoid the slightest "mentioning in vain".

What would be the contrary to "mentionning in vain" ? Being answered ? If so, everyone is constently mentionning in vain. BTW what would happen if you did write God ? Would he be upset ? Would he interrupt his internet session to look at what you're typing and break friendship with you ? Sorry to say this, but to me this is what breaks the credibility of believers. Thinking that God cares about what they do or do not. Like what you eat or drink or what shampoo you use. If God existed and was so wise and intelligent and powerful, why would he care ? What would be the difference between a man doing good and eating pork and a man doing everything his religions commands him and being indifferent to poor people or to members of his family ?
Anyway God and religion should be two separate discussions to me.

 

[T-mun]

If he does it, I might even sacrifice something to him.

With all of us writing God instead of G-d, he will probably strike upon our favorite server

 

[holy king]

The server is busy at the moment. Please try again later.

 

[civ2]

theman
The moment "G-d doesn't care about me" - _I_ don't care about Him too.
In other words, one must have a PERSONAL connection to G-d, otherwise it's very fragile.
And that's the reason for most "atheists" - they don't consider G-d to be CLOSE to them, otherwise they would feel differently - and think differently too.
Again, you can't call the king: "Hey, YOU!!!" - well, you can... ONCE!

 

[holy king]

i'm pretty sure atheists are the ones who dont believe a god exists and not the ones who believe a god exists but isnt all that close to them.

 

[Winner]

I blame God for making me an atheist.