Is multiplayer gimmicky?

[gamemaster3000]

I've never been that interested in multiplayer, but as a way to provide a new challenge I'm wondering how it plays.

I always figured it would be very gimmicky, because things like tearing up the one road leading to a capital or sneak attacks from the sea to snag the capital of an otherwise better empire would be something computer players don't use but human players could.

I also wondered if the person that knows the diplomacy system best has a serious advantage, or is it common just to turn off AI players?

I'm also concerned that if I was in a losing position, it might take a long time to resolve. I don't want to be a quitter yet I don't want to pilot a sinking ship for 2 hours either.

But long story short, is multiplayer fun?

 

[Smote]

Yes, it is fun. If you think you are going to lose, saying "I forfeit, gg" is an honorable way of doing this. However, it is generally frowned upon unless you are the last 2 players remaining. This is because if there are other players, this will let the other player get all your gold and luxuries via peace agreement, and then focus their attention on other people. Also, they will not have to worry about sneak attack, so they don't need to build military vs you which is a huge advantage for them. Fighting to the death and hoping for reinforcement is the best way to play this type of game.

Knowing diplomacy does have an advantage. Any time a player leaves, if you can be the first to loot all of the AI's gold via resource/luxury sales, you will have a serious advantage. For this reason, AI players should be turned off, and players should be encouraged to stay in the game.

Also, AIs are easy to defeat in war, so if you want puppets and have an AI near you, it is very easy.

Sneak Amphibs to the capital can be deadly-effective. I've had it happen to me once, and had lost my capital in a winning game. I came back and won anyways, but it was quite a shock.

 

[CanuckSoldier]

Despite the problems with stabiltiy MP is fun. However as you have suggested MP is nothing like SP. SP is all about learning how the AI works and manipulating it. Humans are much better at tactics and strategy than the AI is, so yes being sneak attacked is very much a reality.

Most of us do not play with AI, because they are so dumb and also because using AI lags the game at the end of each turn for some players making the stability of MP worse. But some casual MP players do play coop games agains the AI. Personally I find these games boring as hell but some people like them.

Quiting is common in casual open games, yes I see your point about not wanting to waste time in a losing cause, but think about the big picture, all the players that started a game agreed to play, and quiting shows alot of disrepect for the time of the other players that also agreed to play the game.

Quiting has always been an issue, and in fact that is the major reason we formed the CivPlayers League back with Civ3 Play the World(the first modern Civ MP game). And that is what we still represent, a volunteer league that promoted not quiting, not cheating, and treating others as you want to get treated.

Feel free to visit us at www.civplayers.com and click on the Chatroom link on the left menu to visit our Steam chat lobby, it is free to use for league and non-league games and avoids the issues with the ingame steam regional games lists.

CS

 

[Tabarnak]

@CS : Just by curiosity...do you write down your paragraph about civplayers infos and mp stuff each time or you have a copy paste ready for each post? They look like very similar...

If it was me, i would have a copy paste message ready for these kind of interventions. You surf in the 2k forums as well so this must be practical.

 

[CanuckSoldier]

@CS : Just by curiosity...do you write down your paragraph about civplayers infos and mp stuff each time or you have a copy paste ready for each post? They look like very similar...

If it was me, i would have a copy paste message ready for these kind of interventions. You surf in the 2k forums as well so this must be practical.

No actually I don't copy and paste that, I write it each time But I am a relatively fast typist But yes since it is basically the same info it is going to be similar.

CS

 

[gamemaster3000]

You know what I forgot one of the other reasons I've never been that interested in multiplayer Civ...doesn't random map generation frequently give people a significant dis/advantage?

(I'm also curious if Great Wall is a big deal in MP)

 

[Smote]

it really does, its tough but I find it rewarding to come back from a bad start

 

[Tabarnak]

(I'm also curious if Great Wall is a big deal in MP)

Workshop--->ge slot--->chivalry--->Himeji before turn 90. I prefer defend with buffed pikes/horses for emergencies. I nver build the GW.

Or maybe Liberty then free ge but you get this very soon or very late usually.

 

[Smote]

i never build great wall either. only situation I can see one building it is as england, because longbow+great wall is nice combination

 

[CanuckSoldier]

You know what I forgot one of the other reasons I've never been that interested in multiplayer Civ...doesn't random map generation frequently give people a significant dis/advantage?

(I'm also curious if Great Wall is a big deal in MP)

In most cases we do try and play maps that have balanced start locations as an option, but yes sometimes the map generator gives you a bad start.

CS

 

[Scam]

I just played my first MP game last night. 4 player ffa on tiny map/quick time. Was very fun, I was France and duked it out with Germany. I blocked Germany in early and had enough units to deter an early war. Eventually crushed him with Musketeers and cannons

 

[Enfeeble]

when the "resources" ain't balanced, it just means the people that didn't get any early game resources will get oil/aluim/ uranium, course games usually over by then lol

 

[gamemaster3000]

What about things like destroying a road tile leading from the capital, or plundering an iron resource?

 

[Tabarnak]

What about things like destroying a road tile leading from the capital, or plundering an iron resource?

Extremely powerful. Enough said.

 

[CanuckSoldier]

What about things like destroying a road tile leading from the capital, or plundering an iron resource?

Yes we call that pillaging, and is what we do if we don't quite have enough military force to attack a city but more than enough to keep is military city bound while we control the "countryside".

And while we are keeping the other guy from expanding we are building cities at home.

CS

 

[MasterMishi]

The city bombard feature means the classic pillage or "choke" strategy isnt quite as devastating as civ 3/4. Often it can be a suicide pillage. Useful if combined with a timely attack taking advantage of strategic resource deficient penalty.

All these gamey ploys and their counters are often what gives players the edge in MP. Playing a close run game with players of your standard is fun.

Strategic balance on res is vital almost always gives iron to every player. Iron is super important in MP.

Civplayers does solve the quits problem but opens up some new probs: Players cant afford to risk ending turn early as you cant move after ending turn and this leaves you vulnerable.

Maps played in ladder games are almost always the more balanced ones: inland sea, n vs s, skirmish.

Players, mostly the newbs, fret too much over poor starts, quitting early if the land doesnt suit their cookie cutter strategy. You have to adjust to the land.

A slow losing situation can resolve if you tech to a resource advantage. In open games you could always make an unoffical team to take down the runaway leader. Real life diplo in this way can be very interesting.

Better to fight to the last unit and die learning the mechanics of your foes victory for next time.

Barely ever see AIs intentionally in a MP game.

Road pillaging is not as common as you might think. In fact it is probably more common to ignore building roads in some short term strats.

Teamwork MP games can be very fun and you learn from your teammate.

The amphib city attack is rare and often suicide untill destroyers when it becomes crazy powerful.

Like SP it has its gimmicks. It can be very iron rushy and it is not for peace loving builders. I have a friend who likes to play small conts maps with me, we reload until we are on separate conts and then end turns really quick and get to space win in under 2 hours, often with mad warfare at the end when space parts get built...

MM

 

[Tabarnak]

If you can produce units faster, it's preferable to go at war even if you have roughly equal number of soldiers or below. Try to stay 50-50% and in the long run you will outcome the ennemy.

I played many games with no iron in sight. Rushing chivalry is a great alternative. It has a good synergy with lot of pastures around. I've been involved in many ''cold wars'' with no iron. It was knights(with 4 moves points) vs Longswords. I can tell that longswords trying to get cities with super knights around is very difficult. Hit and run baby!

More i play games, more i realize that iron is less important than i think.

 

[d3vil_b3rt]

More i play games, more i realize that iron is less important than i think.

That is soo true...

 

[Tabarnak]

But i'm contradicting myself when i said that because in the production strat thread i said the opposite in one of my posts. But i've just understood why.

I got 2 iron only in that game. But i went for Steel and i've got at least 4 horses. My mystake was to not build a wall, but also to not have beelined chivalry. When you have only 2 iron and you see an opponent going strong with many longswordmen, i think it's better to delay steel(and maybe metal casting if lot of pastures) and go directly to chivalry.

For pre-steel wars against swordmen, a wall is even more powerful. I can park some spearmen around, build some horses and i should be fine, even if he rushes Steel(because you i'm going for Chivalry).

 

[d3vil_b3rt]

This is a very powerful tech path that gives a high increase in growth, production, and research. Civil service gets you pikes as a means of defense till u get chilvary, which will get you knights and hemeji. In addition to the pikes, you'll get food bonus from civil(+1 food/river tile), a preliminary to more production. Moreover, this tech path leads to an early university and possibly a great scientist(2 sci especialist or porcelein tower) to pop rifles. With all of these, If you can hold off against LS rush with kights and pikes, you'll most likely get rifles before anyone else does. Then you can say GG to your neighbor.