Is Palace Jumping an exploit?

[Yumbo]

Is palace jumping (abandoning your capital in order to relocate your palace across your empire) cheating?

I say yea, and say that it should be disallowed. In fact, I feel that palace jumping is a much more substantial exploit than, say, Ring City Placement was.

How to stop it:

When capital is abandoned/conquered, palace immedately relocates to city with FP (which actually makes a good deal of sense).

If no FP exists, palace relocates to next nearest city. Might complicate this calculation by considering whether the city has a courthouse, or police station, or other infrastructure that might make it better suited to be a capital.

 

[Krayzeenbk]

Damn it, it really bothers me that RCP has been "fixed". IMO it worked correct to begin with As for palace jumping, I would call it an exploit, but wouldn't refrain from using it.

 

[Archer 007]

Exploit, yes. Cheat level, no.

 

[Rik Meleet]

Anything that gives an advantage and the AI isn't using is an exploit. I wouldn't feel bad using this palace-jump in a multiplayer game, but against the computer I do agree with it's exploitive nature. Not that I ever disbanded my capitol. If I want my palace elsewhere I'd just build a Palace there.

 

[Capt Buttkick]

I don't feel that this is cheating so I voted no.
Given Rik's definition of an exploit, it is though.

 

[xxaaaxx]

Well, I'd call it a semi-exploit. Can't you just build the palace somewhere else? Given that, palace jumping is more of a shortcut, rather than a gamebreaking cheat.


BTW, don't wanna stray too far off-topic, but since it was mentioned, what is/was RCP, why was it considered an exploit, and how exactly has it been "fixed"?

 

[binyo66]

Originally posted by Rik Meleet
Anything that gives an advantage and the AI isn't using is an exploit. I wouldn't feel bad using this palace-jump in a multiplayer game, but against the computer I do agree with it's exploitive nature. Not that I ever disbanded my capitol. If I want my palace elsewhere I'd just build a Palace there.

I vote for No. In my opinion, It's our right to move the palace to a better location. To be fair, I think firaxis should fix the AI, so AI can take advantage of the "palace jump".

 

[Qitai]

Palace Jump is an exploit. Palace Shift is not. Here is how I define them.

Palace Shift - moving the capital to another place (by any means)
Palace Jump- move the capital to another place FOC by using the knowledge about which city the new capital will go to when you disband the original capital.

 

[col]

Exploit yes. I agree with Qitai above. Its the jumping part that bothers me.

I'd be quite happy if you had to build it brick by brick somewhere else. It shouldnt just leap to the (calculatable) next largest city.
Its Ok to build it with a SGL.

 

[Offa]

I suspect Palace jump is only used by a relatively few very good players. I have never done it myself, partly because I feel emotionally attached to the original palace, and it seems too much like hard work. I think therefore it is harsh to call it an exploit, although I would certainly not like to disagree with Qitai, who is a great expert in this (as in much else regarding Civ).

It would probably be best overall if the jump was not allowed, as most of the players who have used it seem to think it is an exploit.

In Conquests, with the loss of military great leaders, would the Palace jump become more powerful (as the more normal leader generated palace/FP becomes difficult)?

 

[Csaba]

Everything is an exploit which is not known
(not programmed to be known) by the AI. But I
think that the trick of palace jump (and another
trick, the "fake palace building" for collecting
shields for a coming wonder) is the result of a
game design problem:
- it is expensive to build a palace
- but you get a palace for nothing if you
abandon/loose your capital
The cost of the palace should be similar to a
smaller building (like a temple).
It would be more realistic, too: in real world
history, moving the government center of an
empire did not take hundreds of years.
Lets hope it will be corrected in a patch.

 

[wilbill]

Webster's gives two definitions of exploit. Some of us seem to prefer one over the other.

1 : to make productive use of : UTILIZE <exploiting your talents> <exploit your opponent's weakness>
2 : to make use of meanly or unjustly for one's own advantage

Is managing your own cities and workers an exploit? Humans do it better than the AI. How about conducting an amphibious assault with 10 transports full of armor? AI doesn't do that. Some say "productive use" of game design, others say "make use of unjustly."
If you're playing a solo game, there's only one opinion that counts. If you playing MP or SG competitively, you define the unaccepatable exploits ahead of time.

 

[DasScoot]

Considering that the option to build a Palace is right there for every city, it's obvious that they intended for people to be able to use it, so I don't see why it would be considered an exploit.

 

[Speedo]

Anything that gives an advantage and the AI isn't using is an exploit.

Using your brain should be an exploit then

IMO the next largest city should be a temporary capital for trade and etc, but you should be required to build the new palace.

 

[Tom|420]

Originally posted by xxaaaxx
BTW, don't wanna stray too far off-topic, but since it was mentioned, what is/was RCP, why was it considered an exploit, and how exactly has it been "fixed"?

RCP = Ring City Placement

It was an exploit based on the fact that all city located at equal distance from the Capital have equal corruption level. That is, building 15 cities all at equal distance from the Capital caused all cities to have only a level 1 corruption, hence the name of Ring City Placement.

 

[Bamspeedy]

Originally posted by DasScoot
Considering that the option to build a Palace is right there for every city, it's obvious that they intended for people to be able to use it, so I don't see why it would be considered an exploit.

They intended people to manually build the palace somewhere if you wanted your capital moved, not get it for free by disbanding your current capital.

Just simply disbanding the capital to get it moved elsewhere wouldn't be so bad. The real problem (or exploit if that is what you want to call it) is that people build the FP right next to the capital (so it only takes 20 or so turns to build), so that when they jump their palace to Timbuktu they now have their 2 cores up and running, and the 2 palaces are spaced far apart, maximizing the corruption reduction benefits.

 

[Longasc]

As Bamspeedy stated, even this exploit is connected to corruption... all evil in CIV comes from corruption. Just my two cents...

 

[Ribannah]

Apart from being an exploit, a palace jump by disbanding your capital is just plain ugly and unnatural. It goes against everything I feel the game is about. Bah!

 

[Sphynx]

Originally posted by Tom|420


RCP = Ring City Placement

It was an exploit

Joining the offtop, sorry. Fixed? When, which patch? Oh... it was my favorite exploit

 

[col]

Originally posted by Ribannah
Apart from being an exploit, a palace jump by disbanding your capital is just plain ugly and unnatural. It goes against everything I feel the game is about. Bah!

I agree with you, Ribannah. It just doesnt feel right.