Is representation ever worth it?

[DarkSchneider]

The Social Policy of representation (+1 culture per city) is it ever worth it? I mean, due to every Social Policy being exponentially more expensive, do you ever make back the culture you put into buying the social policy of representation?

 

[Xger]

It's biggest value is that even cities that you are using to farm science or gold will have border expansion so you don't have to buy anything.

In the context of Social Policies, it's pretty awful as it costs more than you would ever make up.

 

[stormerne]

In my personal opinion, I feel the Liberty tree is the weakest one of the 10 by a long way. The only marginally useful policy to me would be Citizenship. So I never open the tree - as I don't feel there's any point - and I therefore never use Representation. I might open Tradition for Aristocracy. Then I might save the culture points for later tech ages and open Patronage. Depends on the kind of victory I'm aiming for. But there are so many better trees than Liberty!

 

[DarkSchneider]

I'm starting to wonder if any of the trees are worth it. Order certainly seems like the strongest, but comes so late in the game. I like Honor and Tradition in the early game, but they don't have a lot of staying power. I like Liberty's base +50% settler bonus, but the game penalizes you so much for expansion you can't use it to its full effect. But I almost always take Liberty for the +1 bonus per city anyway. I like Piety for the -20% city unhappiness, and most of the stuff in Commerce.

But based on what I've heard City States are the way to go, so that requires Patronage. I really don't like how city states are implemented so I've stayed away from that thus far.

 

[Roxlimn]

Honor's 10 XP bonus is useful any time you war, and the -50% upkeep cost only really justifies itself in the latter parts of the game.

Tradition's -33% Wonder cost is also useful game-wide. Monarchy can find use in latter game tile advancement, when tiles are hideously expensive.

 

[pi-r8]

Honor's 10 XP bonus is useful any time you war, and the -50% upkeep cost only really justifies itself in the latter parts of the game.

Tradition's -33% Wonder cost is also useful game-wide. Monarchy can find use in latter game tile advancement, when tiles are hideously expensive.

oligarchy (+33% bonus in friendly lands) is also surprisingly powerful, since any tough war is going to be fought mostly in your own territory.

 

[DaveGold]

The policy trees are very much worth it. The effects often scale with the size of the empire whilst anything else you do tends to affect one city or unit. They let you customize your empire. However you want to win there's a policy tree to support you. 1000 points of culture will generally have a bigger long term impact than 1000 gold.

Liberty is useful if you're trying to build a large empire with small cities. The +1 culture and production bonuses are perfect for that. I think a lot of CIV5 concepts will seem better following extreme strategies rather than anything middle of the road.

 

[Slowpoke]

Liberty is pretty awesome, really. +1 prod in every city? That's a lot more powerful than it sounds. +1 happiness per city? 7 or so more people for your empire. Representation is utter crap, though. Presumably, it was made to allow cities to expand without a monument, and I guess they were leery about making it +2, as people would think france would then be obsolete.

 

[CaptainJewbeard]

I'm not sure why Piety and Rationalism aren't getting more love. Piety appears to be (in my limited experience of 1 game of culture-win), absolutely essential to a cultural victory due to the 2 free social policies that you kick in at the end. Rationalism (if you are not going for cultural, since they're mutually exclusive) give you awesome, scalable research & happiness bonuses that never fail to be helpful.

Shoot, even Honor is helpful if you take a few in the early part of the game while you're clearing out your continent.

I guess Tradition is good for One City Challenge? I've never attempted it.

 

[qyll]

For culture:

1) Piety
2) Freedom
3) Patronage
4) Tradition
5) Commerce
6) Liberty
7) Honor
8) Order
9) Autocracy
10) Rationalism

I've never gone down Liberty in a cultural game.

 

[Celevin]

For culture:

1) Piety
2) Freedom
3) Patronage
4) Tradition
5) Commerce
6) Liberty
7) Honor
8) Order
9) Autocracy
10) Rationalism

I've never gone down Liberty in a cultural game.

My fastest culture game had Rationalism as the second tree filled. Piety sucks sucks sucks right now in a fast culture game. It's a bit ironic.


Any empire with a large number of cities is good with Liberty. Ignore the people who say that it won't pay for policies, because it is always used in conjunction with other culture producers.

 

[nodule]

How could Piety suck in any culture game? 2 free policies are amazing, especially if taken last.

Freedom's bonuses are admittedly better (+100% culture in wonder cities, -33% policy cost), but I can't imagine ever not taking piety if going for culture.

 

[Quibblesome]

I've only been playing on prince but I find the +happy per trade route really useful. I almost always rock liberty as I like to expand a lot. That + commerce and eventually order.

 

[Lyoncet]

2 free policies are amazing, especially if taken last.

Just a point of clarification: the two free policies - and the policy from the Oracle - do not count when calculating subsequent policy costs, so there's no reason to put off Free Religion (unless you want to put off the prerequisites, of course).

 

[CaptainJewbeard]

Oh! I actually didn't know that. Gooood to know.

 

[Stefanskantine]

Liberty is kinda "meh" but the production one and the extra happy per trade route can be nice for a big empire.

 

[QuixotesGhost]

One of the problems with Liberty is that the Worker bonus rounds turns up instead of down. So in a normal timed game, roads STILL cost three turns to build with the policy.

 

[Celevin]

How could Piety suck in any culture game? 2 free policies are amazing, especially if taken last.

Freedom's bonuses are admittedly better (+100% culture in wonder cities, -33% policy cost), but I can't imagine ever not taking piety if going for culture.

Because the current "best" culture victories have a heavy number of puppets. Think about this.

A lot of puppets where you can't control their growth means you won't have much excess happiness, which means 2 of Piety's policies turn to total garbage.

A lot of puppets makes trade posts a lot better, as the best strategy with them is to spam them. A good, fast culture victory also needs a huge slingshot. I find myself getting to Broadcast Towers at around 1200 AD. 2 free techs are huge for this, and will make up for the lost policies.

 

[CornPlanter]

I find myself getting to Broadcast Towers at around 1200 AD. 2 free techs are huge for this, and will make up for the lost policies.

What difficulty level is that?

 

[Beef Hammer]

Isn't getting the "2 free policy's" policy only really giving you one policy, since you spend a policy to acquire 2 "free" ones...?