Is the AI great or what?

[prologos]

Well I am really impressed by the way the AI behaves in this game!!! And I have still not played on a lvl higher than prince since I 've never won in that lvl
My first game was on noble and I lost by a Space Race Victory of Elisabeth. Off course I was more discovering the game than trying to win, so my win (in the same turn as Mansa Munsa as I ' ve allready mentioned in a previous thread) on my second game on noble was somehow to be expected.
My next game was on prince lvl and a total disaster!! I played as Ghandi and my civ was isolated in an island near the south pole... At some point around 0 AD I was contacted by an AI (I don't remember who) and a few turns later an invading force came guns blazing (literally) since they had grenades and I had bows so the defeat was inevidable!! I was kind of expecting it though since my island was a little small and my resources rare.
So I started again and this time my Greek Civ was Plased in the south of a large continent with 5 more civs. I did quite well until around 1500 AD... Since sometime ago I had made contact with China and USA who were placed in other continents and apparently are mortal enemys. My relations went very good with China and completely down with the Americans. At 1500 a message came from Whasington saying it demanded tribute which I refused to pay. Next turn war was declared and from the OPPOSITE side from which their continent is placed an invading force destroyed one of my cities (one of the smallest thank God). I am just over Asoka who's last now, destroyed the force who razed my city and trying to make piece for a few turns with the Americans so I can prepare for a long long war as it seem this would be, but Whasington does not accept my piece treaty unless I surender one of my large cities and I suspect another landing party is on the way. I guess we'll see how this will end...
My point here is that the AI above noble lvl seems to behave in unexpected ways, trying to surprise when possible!!! I really really like this and to be honest I didn't expected it to be so challenging!!!
I would very much like to here what is the cleverest think the AI has ever done to anybody who liked to answered.
Ohhh BTW I am sorry if my English have mistakes since it's not my native tongue (I an from Greece).


Regards all prologos!!

 

[al_thor]

Yeah, it's not like CivIII, where you had no worries if you were at war with an off-continent civ (maybe they land 3 obsolete units). CivIV is much different - they will land a dozen (or more!) at a time. And not obsolete units either. Great fun.

 

[Al Fredo]

Been playing alot on Noble still. Winning most of the time. Last game, I didn't know how I was going to win, but had a pretty decent tech advantage. Went for the SpaceShip. Two people built the Apollo before me, but I rushed some Labs and had a Great Engineer to help with the Space elevator. Was thinking I was pretty good. It was getting to the 'race' part, the other cities were just building wealth (MISTAKE!). The Incas, who were 1 SSpart behind attacked me. 3 Gunships, 6 or so SAM inf. with Battleship and Cruiser (3 transports) attck my Second producing city. Inf lands a sqaure away..but the Gunships attacked the same turn (not sure how they are used yet). I had a tank in the city, but crappy defense. Maybe a Rifleman, then an archer and spearman.

I was left with a spearman and archer. Oh, and a Crusier. I thought it was over!! Cruiser attacks navy...dies. Ugh. Luckily I had some money. Upgrade the last two units. And here's what saved me. I was Isabella...NO anarchy. Switched to the Drafting civic. Drafted 3 units and moved them into the city. Huge! I was able to take out the gunships, and hold off the SAM infantry. Incas didn't bother me again, and I won the space race.

The non-SS cities must produce military units. Don't know why the AI didn't come at me with Tanks...but it was a hot move anyway. The same turn drafting and moving saved the city!

 

[Artanis]

Yeah, the AI's pretty good (for an AI), regardless of what some naysayers insist. The only game I've played that can really match up to its quality is Massive Assault, and that's pretty high praise for Civ4.

(Massive Assault's AI has FAR fewer factors to deal with than Civ4's AI, but is MUCH harder to beat - most humans can't beat it at all)

 

[Steelsmith]

The AI is definitely smarter than it was in Civ III!

As an example, in Civ III when an AI civ demanded tribute, and you refused, the AI would either declare war on the spot, or back down. Sometimes, a distant civ would declare war, and then not even send any invasion force. Contrast that to how it works in Civ IV.

Last night in my game as Roosevelt, Napoleon had already attacked me once and been repelled. I was cranking on my economy and science, and I knew I was walking a fine line with my military not being quite as strong as it should have been. Napoleon demanded tribute, and I refused.

Almost immediately, Napoleon switched to Theocracy and Vassalage. Aha, I thought, he's going to build an army and attack me. Shortly afterwards, Napoleon started a Golden Age. Pretty smart thing to do for someone building an invasion force. And sure enough, a while after that, he sent a pretty decent invasion force and declared war.

None of this would have been all that surprising from a human player. But for an AI to show that kind of forethought and planning... I was impressed!

Oh, and Napoleon? I was ready for him, and he got his butt kicked. Later in the game, he attacked me for a third time, and got nuked into the stone age for his troubles.

 

[MattJek]

Funny, there is a long thread about how dumb the AI is... . I dont really have a strong opinion on it since I dont think I've played CIV 4 enought to judge for sure. But so far from what I've seen I do think the AI is a big improvement over previous civ games.

 

[EdCase]

I have to agree...example was at war with Isabella (who was friendly with Louis)..Did not pay any attention to one (I thought) of Louis frigates as it sailed past my blockade...2 turns later he's off my coast, declares war and unloads 6 knights, 4 catapults and 3 Musketeers.......

Whilst declaring war of course

 

[lances]

I've been pretty impressed with the AI's warmongering abilities.

I don't know if it's just dumb luck, but in my last game, the Aztecs waited until I was pretty well committed against the Mongols before declaring, and came in with an impressive force.

They also apparently took the time to hide their units from me, because I could see into two of the three cities on my border, and none of the units showed up in either of them. They don't just send their units in pell-mell like they did in III, either. They came in with a combined force, with more than enough to get the job done.

 

[MattJek]

I've been pretty impressed with the AI's warmongering abilities.

I don't know if it's just dumb luck, but in my last game, the Aztecs waited until I was pretty well committed against the Mongols before declaring, and came in with an impressive force.

They also apparently took the time to hide their units from me, because I could see into two of the three cities on my border, and none of the units showed up in either of them. They don't just send their units in pell-mell like they did in III, either. They came in with a combined force, with more than enough to get the job done.

what does pell-mell mean?

 

[Xcalibur]

In ANY order.

 

[Smidlee]

I agree Civ4 AI is very good for a AI. But of course AI will never be as good as we like for them to be. I very serious doubt you'll ever see CIV4 AI win the "domination" or "conquest" victory. When it comes to battles, AI is a poor substitution to human players. That's where multiplayer comes in.
For Time, Space Race, and Diplomatic victories Civ4 AI does give a descent challenge.

 

[MattJek]

I dunno.... in one of my games in Civ 3 the ai civ took over their whole continent and started invading the second one... It came close to a dominating victory. As you can imagine, I did not win that particular game

 

[Breunor]

I agree Civ4 AI is very good for a AI. But of course AI will never be as good as we like for them to be. I very serious doubt you'll ever see CIV4 AI win the "domination" or "conquest" victory. When it comes to battles, AI is a poor substitution to human players. That's where multiplayer comes in.
For Time, Space Race, and Diplomatic victories Civ4 AI does give a descent challenge.

Well,

It will never be as good as the best players. I'm still bearly ahead playing on Prince. I really like how good the AI is.

Breunor

 

[Dairuka]

Well,

It will never be as good as the best players. I'm still bearly ahead playing on Prince. I really like how good the AI is.

Breunor

Agreed.

The biggest advantage that we as players have over the AI, is strategic thinking in regards to war. Therefore, the AI will never be as good as the common player, because it can not adapt quickly to certain situations or aspects of war. It is afterall stuck following an Algorithm.

That is why War is always the best way to ruin the day of somebody who might snatch a Space Race, or Culture Victory from you. They might be able to defend against your first rush of Infantry with their Machine Guns, but they didn't expect you to have 5 Marines sitting in the back waiting for their chance to eat Machine Guns for breakfast, did they?

 

[Xavier Von Erck]

Amen to this topic. Refreshing to see topics actually looking logically at the game, rather than complaining/whining! I love the AI on Civ4. Been playing every Civ since the first one on the Super Nintendo version. Consistently, the way the AI uses navies has always, always been disappointing. Civ3 was especially frustrating, especially when Conquests announced Seafaring... did the AI use navies properly then? Nope.

Now I see stacked naval units, especially for invasions. My friend was playing, went to war with his rival, who was somewhat underpowered compared to him. Just as he was fully extended, another Civ, far underpowered but smartly opportunistic pops up with six transports, two carriers and a fleet of battleships. He was completely beat-down. On my own games, I'm a bit smoother with diplomacy (rarely go to war) and the AI is still pretty slick. The one war I did go into saw the AI used combined arms very effectively to repel my 35+ unit invasion force.

I landed Mech. Inf, Modern Armor, some leftover tanks and gunships. While I was able to raze their landscape, their cities were intensely fortified and they used airpower effectively. They were even smart enough to send Battleships out after my carrier fleets (Two carriers + Sub + Three battleships + Transports stack) in order to try to move my air defense out. Now that the AI uses their navy and airforce properly, I've turned on lethal air bombardment to give them even a bit more of an advantage.

While some people sit around and moan about the non-need for 3D graphics, there is no real argument against the FACT that the AI is vastly superior to the AI in Civ3. More than enough improved to make this series invigorating once again. I can't wait for the SDK to come out and for the modder community to grow so that we can get an even greater game. Hopefully something will come along as good as DYP and RAR were for Civ3

 

[DemonDeLuxe]

While some people sit around and moan about the non-need for 3D graphics, there is no real argument against the FACT that the AI is vastly superior to the AI in Civ3.

Who would be dumb enough to use the one aspect as an "argument" against the other one? Us who don't like the graphics have very different complaints about it (resourcehungriness, not adding to gameplay i.e. being without any real function, less overview etc. etc.) which have nothing to do with the AI. Just the other way round: If we wouldn't notice that the AI in fact *IS* a bit better than before, we wouldn't complain but simply return to CIV3. As it is, however, we have the problem of choice between sucky graphics and sucky AI - hardly what we hoped would be the situation with the advent of CIV4.

Hopefully something will come along as good as DYP and RAR were for Civ3

Yes indeed. Because plain vanilla CIV4 very much lacks all the epic feeling CIV3 with these mods had )or with that most excellen Warhammer mod). I really wonder why Firaxis didn't include at least an option to play CIV4 the DYP way. Quite to the contrary, in fact.

 

[Xavier Von Erck]

A bit better than before, I love you mindless bashers. Resourcehungriness? It's not exactly hard to edit the game to have more resources. You're comparing Civ4 to Civ3 w/mods. That's idiotic. Compare Civ4 to Civ3. The AI is yards better than Civ3's AI. I have never, ever, never... feared an AI attack over water. Never. Now there is something to fear.

As for the graphics, I like the graphics. 3D doesn't add anything to the gameplay, but it's certainly more interesting than top-down 2D. It certainly doesn't take away anything from the gameplay. Some people just like to whine, complain and moan because they build up their expectations too high. Like children do. "This will be the best thing ever! It will have EVERYTHING! Everything will be PERFECT!" - A better mindset is... "The game should be better than civ3." I loved Civ3, played it right up until Civ4. Civ4 is better, by leaps and bounds.

Quite to the contrary

It's more robust than unmodded Civ3 ever was. And if one is patient, the modding community will do it again... especially once the SDK is released. In the meantime, go get the Dynastic speed mod.

 

[Dogzilla]

I played one game on prince level and was surprised to be attacked by the Romans (Earth map, I was Japan) in force. Very unexpected. I don't know if the AI is that smart, but it can be agressive and unpredictable on that level. On noble level it hasn't done anything like that yet in 3 games.

 

[Neomega]

The Ai is good, except for one respect, which actually, has made me wonder if I will continue to play.

I have yet to beat the game at all, only tried emperor or monarch. A few games I could have won, but I quit, due to boredom, uninspiring map location, etc...

Anyways, my problem is not the enemy AI, it is the PLAYER'S AI!!!!!

The game I just quit, I was dooing great. The Chinese declared war on me, and I harassed their forces until I could build up a good city defense int he city I knew they were gunning for. They had 3 knights, 2 pikemen, 2 mace men

In my city, I had 2 samauri, 1 spearman, and 2 longbowmen. 40% city defense.

The knights attacked first. And who did the AI pick to defend?

MY F'ING SAMAURI!!!! All their first strikes useless against knights.... no city defense bonus like longbowmen, and 50% melee WASTED on the non-melee units!!! So the 3 knights SLAUGHTER my Samauri, then the Pikemen come in.... and waste my Spearman.... GRRR!!!! and finish off my longbowmen....

My losses, all 5 units. Their losses, one maceman. A disgrace. And I think I am done playing this game....

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Also, the higher difficulty levels give a BIG boost by giving a free worker, and two archers.... something that takes near 25-35 turns for a player to build. The best strategy is to sneak attack and sieze the first AI worker you see.

 

[Dragonlor]

I'll take "Or What" for 1000.