Is the AI too friendly?

[Art Morte]

Hi, and sorry if this has a thread, I checked the first few pages and didn't see anything.

I was wondering is the AI too friendly and is it too easy to become friends with them now?

In my current game I've been declared friends several times in succession with my two nextdoor neighbours. I'm playing a peaceful game, so it's all right in a way, but at the same time feels a little boring not having to worry at all about my closest civs military wise.

To add to that, here's what also happened in that game: Brasil is one of those neighbours and I've been blocking his expansion since the start (has only 3 or 4 cities). However, he had iron and I didn't, which gave him an edge early on. I saw him gathering units close to my border and thought "here we go", then I even saw one of those rumour messages, "your lady-in-waiting has heard that Brasil is considering war on France (me)". However, the very next turn Brasil accepted my friendship offer and we've been friends ever since.

So, basically I feel that once you get on the AI's good side, it's too easy to stay there for the rest of the game (or until they start hating you for winning).

 

[Laurana Kanan]

Post Summer patch, is the AI too friendly?

Possible Source of the "Too Friendly" Bug

 

[unpossible251]

see, a lot of people on the forum will probably say the opposite. Individual results (&opinions) vary of course, but most of the chatter, in my unscientific judgement, has gone along the lines of "alliances are so hard to earn & maintain", "everyone is constantly wave-denouncing me", "why is Gandhi joint warring me?" and so on. I remember a pre patch screen cap where Victoria maintained 6 seperate alliances.

Not saying your opinion is wrong... just that its atypical.

 

[antimony]

These things are not contradictory. It used to be that when you spend 30 turns of friendship the AI would almost always accept an alliance, not anymore. This doesn't mean the AI is less friendly, I've seen them suggest friendship early in the game, not sure if it's significantly different from last patch.

 

[Archon_Wing]

Try finishing a game and see if you reach the same conclusion. The AI gets hostile if you start winning.

It does aggressively seek friendship in the beginning because it doesn't want you declaring war on it, especially a joint war. That's actually smart if you ask me, and I think they should keep it.

 

[Sherlock]

I've learned why the early game AI wants to be friends all the time.

They want to send settlers into your territory that you can't DOW and steal.

No more early game friendships for me.

 

[stinkubus]

I assumed that the early DOFs were a quick a dirty work around to the problem of leader agendas which cannot be easily fulfilled upon first meeting.

 

[Art Morte]

I assumed that the early DOFs were a quick a dirty work around to the problem of leader agendas which cannot be easily fulfilled upon first meeting.

That's too much, once you're friends once, you're friends forever. The change is massive to Civ5 where everyone who was your neighbour wanted to kill you, but this is too much the other way. Everyone want to be friends with me. No balance. From one extreme to the other. Like someone said, this is more like SimCiv.

 

[stinkubus]

The early DOFs do add at least one interesting wrinkle to the game. If you start surrounded by 2-3 civs you can DOF with 1-2 of them and let them build empires for you while you go expand toward and conquer the remaining civ. This way you can leave your own empire nearly defenseless as you'll have friendly civs in multiple directions and your army is headed toward the only potential danger. By the time the DOF is up you should be just about ready to go visit your "friends" with some promoted units.

 

[Art Morte]

The early DOFs do add at least one interesting wrinkle to the game. If you start surrounded by 2-3 civs you can DOF with 1-2 of them and let them build empires for you while you go expand toward and conquer the remaining civ. This way you can leave your own empire nearly defenseless as you'll have friendly civs in multiple directions and your army is headed toward the only potential danger. By the time the DOF is up you should be just about ready to go visit your "friends" with some promoted units.

This only makes it worse, though.

It's easy - very early on - to declare friends with two of your neighbours while you attack the third. And you can indeed commit all of your military into the offense, because you know your friends won't attack. Human player is able to take advantage of friendships so much more than the AI. It's just totally unbalanced. You're basically friends for as long as you like, and then attack if you feel like it.

What makes it worse is that sometimes I see AI units moving close, as in ready to attack, thinking they can have me - and often with good reason - but I can declare friendship with them. I know civ mechanics enough and this just tells me that on one hand the AI thinks, quite rightly, that they have the upper hand, but on the other hand their diplomacy mechanics are happy to DOF with me. The AI is contradicting itself. This gives the human player an advantage that's insanely great. Leave 66% of your borders totally unguarded while taking on 33% at a time.

I used to think Civ5 diplomacy with "the moment you share border with the AI they want to kill you" was bad, but this is even worse now.

 

[Gengsikan]

Actually, playing as Russia become friend with England and after some few turns it declared war on me, for no reason (peaceful game) with a weak army. When you have a army big then AI, they tend to DOF. Like I said in other post: Civ6 has no AI but scripts for certain situations.

 

[Archon_Wing]

This only makes it worse, though.

It's easy - very early on - to declare friends with two of your neighbours while you attack the third. And you can indeed commit all of your military into the offense, because you know your friends won't attack. Human player is able to take advantage of friendships so much more than the AI. It's just totally unbalanced. You're basically friends for as long as you like, and then attack if you feel like it.

What makes it worse is that sometimes I see AI units moving close, as in ready to attack, thinking they can have me - and often with good reason - but I can declare friendship with them. I know civ mechanics enough and this just tells me that on one hand the AI thinks, quite rightly, that they have the upper hand, but on the other hand their diplomacy mechanics are happy to DOF with me. The AI is contradicting itself. This gives the human player an advantage that's insanely great. Leave 66% of your borders totally unguarded while taking on 33% at a time.

I used to think Civ5 diplomacy with "the moment you share border with the AI they want to kill you" was bad, but this is even worse now.

But at the same time, it is harder to start a joint war because they will have friended each other and start hating you because you occupy an ally's city.

And you have never really had to worry about a 2 front war anyways because joining a war in progress isn't a trade option.

They shouldn't accept friendship or pursue one if they have already plotted war I agree. But honestly this is sound. Basically the AI knows it sucks at early war and would rather fight at another time.

It is really nothing more than a "no rush" agreement.

 

[Disgustipated]

No and No. I made the mistake of letting my guard down with Rome after they wanted a declaration of friendship. When the 1st friendship expired they attacked me with 4 units. My warrior was off exploring because I thought all was good.

I really wish they had a turn timer for when friendships expire.

P.S. this wasn't at a high level either, I got conquered on Prince. The first time I lost on Prince ever in any of the Civs. And this was with the recent patch. I know I made the mistake of building a scout then a builder (I usually never build scouts), but still. Also a lesson for playing with barbs off. Barbs do protect you in a way and force you to build a slinger first. Just once I wanted to build a scout first. The game can be annoying in forcing you to build military units first.

Edit: I've noticed this in another recent game as well (though I didn't lose my capital). They AI seems more likely to do a surprise war on you in the ancient age more than before. But they are also more likely to declare friends as well. It's very easy to get friend declarations. So it's a mixed bag is what I'm saying. On certain maps, I've really seen them go after me. Having barbs off makes it more likely they will attack you.

 

[Archon_Wing]

That is such a scumbag move on the Ai's part.

I like it.

And yea we should be able to see when DoF ends

 

[cazaderonus]

Since the patch i ve seen many different behaviors from the ai. I tend to play peacefull early or with a limited early war (1/2 city top) because i dont want to get too much of and edge through conquest as it feels too easy. So i play the diplo game as much as i can, using my good relations to justify a few agressions later on.

And i ve had 3 ais dow me out of the blue after 20 turns. 4 neighbooring ais being friend with me after 70 turns. Friendly ais suddenly starting a joint war out of a friendship declaration for a small pillaging run (never attacked any city until i cleansed their unit). Ais asking to joint war vs a friend of both our civ. And more

Even before the patch i had no much trouble getting friends, meaning green faces, but zince the patch i feel it s less bulletproof than it was. Ais seem to seize more opportunities, or at least and it s probably closer to the truth, more random. It makes it feel more natural tbh. After a few surprise, i just dont trust the ais eniugh even with huge green diplo modifiers to just neglect my army. I ll always stand in the 3rd 4th military ranking at least and aim for 2nd or 1st toward the end. This is what seems to secure the diplomacy really..

Personnaly, outzide of the broken deals, which may play a part in what i described who knows, i like the game better since the patch. Ais will reach a SV around t280/300 from my estimates looking at victory conditions and the one game i lost lately. So my peacefull but opportunistic games make for fun games as i dont min max like crazy nor go on killing sprees.

 

[Disgustipated]

I like it.

Yeah it's not like I can say I've never DOW'd the AI after the declaration of friendship expired. I guess I was deserving of that.

i just dont trust the ais eniugh even with huge green diplo modifiers to just neglect my army.

Very true here. I learned my lesson above. Unpredictable is the word I'd use to describe the AI up until the industrial age at least.

 

[Rosty K]

Maybe just a little friendly, yes

Just in case, they all offered it themselves.