Is the Altar of the Luonnotar worth it?

[clut]

I'd never built this in previous games, as I could never find the tech that enabled the first building, so after a little hunting around I realised you had to build it with a great priest.

Whilst the first few versions of this wonder are fairly easy to get, the 5th, 6th and 7th all take a fair while both to research, and also to accumulate the great people points... and while doing it you really can't risk polluting your great people birth rate with other specialists.

That said... is this (or rather, are these 7) wonder(s) worth it?

 

[OzzyKP]

if you like winning games.

 

[Goodgimp]

The Altar seems like an awesome wonder for a priest-focused game/civ. I've wanted to try it as the Malakim with a heavy focus on Divine units and religion, but unfortunately I got severely rolled on my first attempt (Nothing to do with the Altar not being worth it, had more to do with the five civs simultaneously invading me with giant stacks early in the game ).

 

[NeoParn]

Well if you build the final alter you win the game, that’s pretty good.

The alter works best, imho, with a religious heavy strategy, as its tech requirements suggest. Even if your not going for the win condition (or have it disabled as I usually do) it’s handy if your going to field a large number of disciple units (Paladins and monks are quite nice for this). At level 3 it begins to get much cooler, boosted production for priests (if you’re going heavy religion that’s great) and happiness bonuses for your entire empire, and the bonus XP just keeps getting better and better.

So, if I happen to pop a Great Prophet while I'm not playing religo-centric, and I don't need them to build a Holy City site, I usually start working on the alter in whatever city is most likely to produce more Prophets. Even if it’s just for the extra 2-4 xp I feel like it’s more worth while then bulbing them away.

 

[clut]

Well if you build the final alter you win the game, that’s pretty good.

I thought that was the case, but while playing through it, and checking the pedia after each new Great Priest to see what benfits came with the new wonder, I skipped ahead to see what happened on building the VIIth, and I couldn't see anywhere in the pedia entry about winning the game upon building the Final.

That made me rethink the whole point of doing it. I begain to question whether or not I made up the 'winning on building the final' idea.

 

[xienwolf]

I generally don't settle great people if I can help it, so once I have the shrine for every religion I have founded, I ALWAYS build the altar. Since I started running Specialist Economy pretty heavily I have noticed that it doesn't take too long for a Priest to be better than an Engineer across the board. I think at the 5th Altar maybe? Anyway, I don't worry about polluting my GP pool either, because the Engineers are useful for grabbing the last altar, Commanders flat out rock no matter what, and I just don't ever get points for anything else

 

[vivictius]

I tend to build it when running the Luchurip (I use Beeri for leader) as I found having fast moving disciple units really helps to back up my golems.

 

[Mesix]

Do golems need back up???

 

[Roghar]

only in the form of adepts casting Repair! Otherwise they're pretty right by themsleves

the best use i've had for the altar, victory aside, was as Sidar cranking out high xp stonewardens for eventual Shading

 

[vivictius]

The one drawback to golems is their speed (1). With Beeri my disciple units are all speed 2. So along with stonewardens casting repair, I also get units to pillage and what not as my stack of iron golems plods along.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Golems' slow speed always annoyed me, especially after the velox workshop was removed.

In my modmod I added UBs to give them specialized promotions, including light from a new "Golem Racetrack" Hippodrome UB, heavy from a Armamant molds (now a Weaponssmith UB), and City Raider II from a "Assault Workshop" Bear Totem UB (I also changed Gridlines to City Garrison 2, and left blasting workshops as they were.) Then, I created Retrofit spells that let golems get these promotions while in cities with the proper buildings (losing light if getting heavy, heavy when getting light, City Raider when getting City Garrison, or City Garrison when getting City Raider)

 

[Mesix]

only in the form of adepts casting Repair! Otherwise they're pretty right by themsleves

the best use i've had for the altar, victory aside, was as Sidar cranking out high xp stonewardens for eventual Shading

That's a great idea. They should mature much faster than my adept/mage shades do. I'll have to give this a shot in my next game.

 

[BCalchet]

I've found a nice trick with the altar is to found the Veil and/or have it spread to your altar city - this way, you can build their first-tier disciple units (who don't require the state religion) and upgrade them to pre-experienced mages.

 

[it-ogo]

Even if altar victory is disabled.

There are three ways to get 3-hammer specialists.

1)To be sidar.
2)To build the guild of hammers.
3)To build altar.

First two ways are unique, third one are good for all non-evil civs. Isn't it enough good reason by itself? Also 3-hammer priests give 1 commerce more then 3-hammer engineers.

Other bonuses are: happiness in all cities, +xp for disciples and free bless each turn in altar city, culture, GPP...

 

[xienwolf]

And since it allows more priest specialists, eventually it almost grows itself

 

[clut]

ok ok , so it is worth building this then . I'm going to start again, using what I've learnt this time around about building the altar.

On my first attempt I built it in a city that didn't have good GP potential, so I couldn't make full use of all the extra great priests. This time I'm going to watch out for that, and all the other bits of info you guys have posted.

 

[Mesix]

Even if altar victory is disabled.

There are three ways to get 3-hammer specialists.

1)To be sidar.
2)To build the guild of hammers.
3)To build altar.

First two ways are unique, third one are good for all non-evil civs. Isn't it enough good reason by itself? Also 3-hammer priests give 1 commerce more then 3-hammer engineers.

Other bonuses are: happiness in all cities, +xp for disciples and free bless each turn in altar city, culture, GPP...

Priests give +1 gold, not +1 commerce. It is slightly different. Commerce can be turned into research or culture with the slider mechanics. Gold is just gold (although more gold allows you to run the slider at a higher level).

Because of this, the Altar city is often a good place to build the Bazaar national wonder that gives +100% gold. This has double the effect if the Altar city is also a Holy city with a shrine.

 

[it-ogo]

Priests give +1 gold, not +1 commerce. It is slightly different. Commerce can be turned into research or culture with the slider mechanics. Gold is just gold (although more gold allows you to run the slider at a higher level).

Right, i am always confused with these two terms. One coin symbol is "commerce", columns of coins symbol is "gold". So the rate of exchange commerce for gold is one coin for two columns of coins. Fair and forthright.

Because of this, the Altar city is often a good place to build the Bazaar national wonder that gives +100% gold. This has double the effect if the Altar city is also a Holy city with a shrine.

Didn't get it. Holy city is OK but Altar itself does not produce either gold or commerce. Moreover city with altar usually is oriented to production rather then to gold: for building final altar and high level disciple units.

 

[xienwolf]

He is saying that the Holy city gives you raw Gold, and the priest specialists (lots) you are running ALSO give you raw gold. So you are probably producing a ton of gold in this city, compared to any other city.

 

[popejubal]

...and have enough production to build the monstrous thing.