Is the Great Lighthouse overpowered?

[morchuflex]

Hello.

I mainly play archipelago maps, on Monarch level, and I have noticed that my success mostly depends on wether I manage to build the GLH or not.

TWO additional trade routes is huge, especially if you have some friendly neighbors. It has only gone better with BTS, since overseas trade is now more valuable and Custom houses have been added.
And the wonder lasts until rather late in the game (in fact, I will often delay the obsoleting tech until I really need it).

Furthermore, the AI generally doesn't beeline to sailing, so if you make it your primary focus, you can hardly miss it. Most of the time, I even have time to found one or two cities before building it.

Finally, it also has the rather counter-intuitive effect of making Industrious nations more competitive on archipelago maps. For instance, Louis XIV is surprisingly effective on archipelagos. Creative means you don't have to waste time with mysticism, and can quickly complete a library to reach sailing and masonry faster. And industrious means that, with a typical start, your capital can complete the GLH in 12-20 turns (on Epic speed).

I think it should either be more expensive, or be toned down to giving only one additional route. Even so, it would probably be a good investment.

What's your opinion?

 

[18lama]

I think its fine the way it is.

 

[King of Town]

It's fine because if you don't play on archipelago it isn't as useful, and might even be worthless as a wonder.

 

[gunter]

Some wonders are quite useless, the Great Lighthouse not and it's very good as it is because it is a challenge to be able to build it before enemies,on water lands of course.

If someone fails to build it it's ok , it's part of the game and the player have to deal with this missed chance but he can always raze the city where the Great Lighthouse has been built,just for the sake of equity

Beeing myself a sea power inclined player I always try to build it among my fisrt ptiorities.

 

[thelibra]

Only coastal cities get the +2 trade routes, which is fine if you're on a map where every city is going to be a coastal city. But most maps I play on random, I might only have 1 or 2 coastal cities, which is hardly a massive boon to my economy.

 

[Say_my_name]

Its made obsolete by Astronomy right?

That's the Colossus, the GLH expires with Corporation.

 

[Martinus]

I love how we get these threads (and a mirror "X wonder is useless" threads) about every single wonder in game.

Well, maybe except for the Chicken Pizza.

 

[TrailblazingScot]

The colossus is far more overpowered if we're talking compare and contrast, especially on a map such as archipelago. That said, the Great Lighthouse is a nice wonder, but it is quite expensive as no resources help speed up its production.

 

[CoZe]

colossus pwns at archipelago especially if you're financial.

 

[classical_hero]

But you need to be working lots of water tiles for that to work, whereas the GLH is working right from the moment you get it.

 

[ese-aSH]

Hello.

I mainly play archipelago maps, on Monarch level, and I have noticed that my success mostly depends on wether I manage to build the GLH or not.

TWO additional trade routes is huge, especially if you have some friendly neighbors. It has only gone better with BTS, since overseas trade is now more valuable and Custom houses have been added.
And the wonder lasts until rather late in the game (in fact, I will often delay the obsoleting tech until I really need it).

Furthermore, the AI generally doesn't beeline to sailing, so if you make it your primary focus, you can hardly miss it. Most of the time, I even have time to found one or two cities before building it.

Finally, it also has the rather counter-intuitive effect of making Industrious nations more competitive on archipelago maps. For instance, Louis XIV is surprisingly effective on archipelagos. Creative means you don't have to waste time with mysticism, and can quickly complete a library to reach sailing and masonry faster. And industrious means that, with a typical start, your capital can complete the GLH in 12-20 turns (on Epic speed).

I think it should either be more expensive, or be toned down to giving only one additional route. Even so, it would probably be a good investment.

What's your opinion?

well, on ilands maps all the wonder that take effect only on 1 continent become useless ; GLight become great... when playing Haniball it even become cheat

but coloseus becomes great too ! sushi & co corporation too !

thats islands maps

 

[MrFrodo]

I thought this was going to be a joke thread. But I guess in maps with tons of sea commerce it is quite useful. But it clearly isn't overpowered, most people would probably prefer Colossus.

 

[18lama]

Actually GLH and Artmis temple is a very good combo.

 

[thomson_2001]

Actually GLH and Artmis temple is a very good combo.

and play as carthage (financial) for the unique building of Cothon instead of harbour (+1 trade route, +50% route yeild) and free market (+1 trade route) and its caa-ching!

 

[morchuflex]

I thought this was going to be a joke thread. (...) But it clearly isn't overpowered, most people would probably prefer Colossus.

I am not joking, and I'm certain the GLH beats the Colossus hands down on most archipelago maps. Earlier availability, much longer effectiveness, much lesser risk that the AI beats you to it (because it becomes available before anyone can pop a GE), and you don't need to work water tiles.
The only case when this wonder falls rather short is when you have no early neighbors whatsoever. But even then, it will help for quite some time once you discover Astronomy...
If you are blessed with 2-3 early, friendly neighbors, the GLH doubles or even tripples your income. Then you just have to build harbors, and voila: "we are rich, sire. Rich, rich, rich!!!"

 

[johnny_rico]

That's the Colossus, the GLH expires with Corporation.

Correct, so it is ok for the GLH to go away because you can build wall street.

I don't think the GLH is overpowered even on archipelago. If you can get the GLH, ToA, and the Colossus, then you're dancin'.

 

[MrFrodo]

I am not joking, and I'm certain the GLH beats the Colossus hands down on most archipelago maps. Earlier availability, much longer effectiveness, much lesser risk that the AI beats you to it (because it becomes available before anyone can pop a GE), and you don't need to work water tiles.
The only case when this wonder falls rather short is when you have no early neighbors whatsoever. But even then, it will help for quite some time once you discover Astronomy...
If you are blessed with 2-3 early, friendly neighbors, the GLH doubles or even tripples your income. Then you just have to build harbors, and voila: "we are rich, sire. Rich, rich, rich!!!"

Cool, just goes to show how different peoples experience is depending on what kind of game settings/maps/etc. they play with. One of these days I'll try archipelago with Carthage and actually make some money from reading this thread

 

[troytheface]

I concur with the random map player. I'd build it and saw no great boon - but we're talking non archipeligo.
However, someone also mentioned "chicken pizza" which refers to the glorious Chitza Itza which i rank as the 3rd best wonder. 1st if you play the Aztecs.

But in so far as the GLH it is not overpowered at all (in my games) even in combo with the Temple of Artimis (which i tried once because someone mentioned it in another thread)
(Lincoln/Stndard/Prnce)

Great Wall is the one i would question in so far as being overpowered.

 

[Antilogic]

I love how we get these threads (and a mirror "X wonder is useless" threads) about every single wonder in game.

Well, maybe except for the Chicken Pizza.

No man! Chicken Pizza is so brokenly powerful!

...

 

[KMadCandy]

That's the Colossus, the GLH expires with Corporation.

Correct, so it is ok for the GLH to go away because you can build wall street.

quite true! i never thought about it that way, but in a way i was applying it in my current game already. i'm willem, so i have tons of coastal cities. i built maoi statues in my double-holy city (excellent RNG there yeehaw!), and colossus and GLH. colossus i knew would go obsolete soonish but it wasn't long to build with the production there, and the GM points are yummy even after the wonder is obsolete. all the GPPs from wonders there are types: prophets (from statues and 2 shrines) and merchants. i even put a sign on the map to remind me that wall street goes there, so that i don't goof up and put some other national there .

i think i'm getting too addicted to playing the dutch