[NFP] Is there a danger that Civ6 becomes "bloated"?

[whacker]

I think all these alternative game modes are a bad thing for civ6. While it is true that you can turn them off, the resources used for developing them would better be spent in improving the core elements of the game. There is plenty room for improvement and i am afraid we will be getting more and more "optional" stuff.
I guess for Firaxis it is more wortwhile to add more rushed content than making the existing as good as possible.

 

[acluewithout]

I mean, overall I think Game Modes are the best way forward for Civ (along with a vibrant modding community).

The benefit of Game Modes is that it gives FXS much more room to develop the game in bold ways and take risks, without having to worry about actually alienating players. It also gives players better options to customise the game. And it also means more ongoing support.

The catch is, I think the Game Mode idea has been a bit precipitous, because the core game really wasn’t quite “complete”. I mean, it’s great and all having Vampires - optional fantasy is fine, and overall I like the sort of hidden world government idea - but what is the point of vampires when the game is still missing medieval siege and melee meaning you can’t take walled cities for like a chunk of the middle game.

I’m sure it’s obvious from my posts, but I really am quite frustrated with the game. Frustrated, because I really like what is currently in the game and really like the stuff that’s coming via NFP, comets, vampires and zombies included. But from about the Medieval Era onward, the game really just doesn’t click, and so I’m just left kind of liking all these new features but having very little interest in playing much because the game keeps running out of steam at turn 150.

Sorry. I’ll lay down with a cold compress, have a nap, and leave people alone for a bit. It’s just been at bit maddening that it felt like FXS had lined the game up for a smashing third expansion and then ... we’ve just sort of not got there, and may or may not ever, really. All the dots are there to connect, but FXS largely don’t see, to be connecting them.

At least if there was DLL I’d assume someone would just mod whatever is missing, but that’s not an option either...

Anyway. I’m sure it’ll all work out in the wash. Or it won’t. Either way, whatever happens to Civ VI won’t be the biggest story of 2020. At this point, I wouldn’t be surprised if we actually get Zombies, Vampires and Comets. We’ve pretty much had everything else, and it’s only July!?!

 

[SammyKhalifa]

I think all these alternative game modes are a bad thing for civ6. While it is true that you can turn them off, the resources used for developing them would better be spent in improving the core elements of the game. There is plenty room for improvement and i am afraid we will be getting more and more "optional" stuff.
I guess for Firaxis it is more wortwhile to add more rushed content than making the existing as good as possible.

Maybe? But remember that for all of the previous civs, many of the improvements we remember now because they were in the final version weren't there until the very last wrap-up patch.

 

[Pure24]

I've always thought the game needs an overhaul starting in the Modern Era. But that's something for the ideas and suggestions thread (maybe I'll post my ideas there).

And when I say overhaul, I mean OVERHAUL.

Yes, I feel the game needs polish more than new content

 

[Snarf054]

The problem with fixing the unpopular or less than ideal parts of the core game is who's going to pay for it? Seriously if they came out with an improved AI and fixed the World Congress but you had to pay $40 for it would you? Or would you be on here with pitchforks and torches screaming about the audacity of making us pay for something that should have been in the game the whole time? Civ VI has reached the point where unless we get lucky and get some tweaks in the free patches every month it is what it is as far as the core game. Hopefully Civ VII will take into account the main complaints from players and fix most of the big issues.

And PLEASE will people stop complaining about not having trebuchets!? The Steel and Thunder:More Units mod has all those units people want. I've been using it since 2018 and it's never been broken by a new patch or expansion, it's still getting updated (last time was June 22). Go get it and use it already. What does it matter if it's a mod or official content?

My biggest hope for Civ VI is that once NFP is done that will be it for Firaxis doing anything with the game and they will set the modding community free and then we will get the true and final version that we all want.

 

[Duomo1334]

Here the problem is completely different. Civilization becomes less realistic, not more bloated. With the introduction of all sorts of vampires, the game becomes more and more fantasy. I believe that this is the wrong way, which in the future may lead to the fact that Civilization will leave the scene altogether, giving way, for example, to Humankind.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Here the problem is completely different. Civilization becomes less realistic, not more bloated. With the introduction of all sorts of vampires, the game becomes more and more fantasy. I believe that this is the wrong way, which in the future may lead to the fact that Civilization will leave the scene altogether, giving way, for example, to Humankind.

 

[nzcamel]

Agreed. There’s also stuff from Civ V that really deserves to be carried over.

No, they need to keep working things so they fit best with 6. carrying over something from 5 ( a much more simple game overall) just cos it worked in 5 would be a mistake.

 

[acluewithout]

snip

I don’t really disagree up to a point.

That said, Civ VI already carries over a lot of mechanics from Civ V, albeit updated and expanded. Hexes and 1UPT are obvious, but also Religion, Tourism, Great People. Even some Civ VI Government Policies are reworked Social Policies. Some are quite subtle too - Governors are basically Social Policies from Civ V (Magnus = Liberty, Liang = Tradition, Victor = Honour, Reyna = Commerce, Amani = Patronage, Pingala = Rationalism etc). Lots of examples.

I don’t think stuff from Civ V should be carried over unchanged or just for the sake of it. But I think there’s still lots of stuff from Civ V that deserves to be brought over provided it was adapted to Civ VI. That’s all.

 

[Futumch]

The developers could take a good look at the most popular mods that are being used, and find a way to integrate their functionality into the base game. They have already done this with the Map Tacks addon. I think that polishing often-used aspects of the game would be a better use of their time than adding niche game modes.
Things like sortable lists (for ranking your cities by science output etc), world population meter, a world wonder page.

I always liked in the very first Civ you could see at a glance the world population, represented by liittle characters wearing different coloured t-shirts depending on which civ they belonged to. I also liked the Top 5 cities report. This pic is a photo from the original Civ 1 manual (Amiga version) which I found when I was cleaning up some old stuff last week.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

I don’t really disagree up to a point.

That said, Civ VI already carries over a lot of mechanics from Civ V, albeit updated and expanded. Hexes and 1UPT are obvious, but also Religion, Tourism, Great People. Even some Civ VI Government Policies are reworked Social Policies. Some are quite subtle too - Governors are basically Social Policies from Civ V (Magnus = Liberty, Liang = Tradition, Victor = Honour, Reyna = Commerce, Amani = Patronage, Pingala = Rationalism etc). Lots of examples.

I don’t think stuff from Civ V should be carried over unchanged or just for the sake of it. But I think there’s still lots of stuff from Civ V that deserves to be brought over provided it was adapted to Civ VI. That’s all.

I think plenty has been brought over from V.

If anything, I believe the best expansion would be nostalgia-baiting civ IV players with a throwback pack introducings corporations and vassal states.

 

[God of Kings]

Civ II has Test of Time, complete with soft fluffy cloud platforms:

Even Civ V has units walking on clouds:

Therefore, having a unit that can walk on clouds has precedence in the Civ series.

 

[Icicle]

Ah, hello, game expansion that got me into making scenarios way back in the day.

And yeah, Civ 6 is already bloated. For me it jumped that shark at diplo points.

 

[nzcamel]

I don’t really disagree up to a point.

That said, Civ VI already carries over a lot of mechanics from Civ V, albeit updated and expanded. Hexes and 1UPT are obvious, but also Religion, Tourism, Great People. Even some Civ VI Government Policies are reworked Social Policies. Some are quite subtle too - Governors are basically Social Policies from Civ V (Magnus = Liberty, Liang = Tradition, Victor = Honour, Reyna = Commerce, Amani = Patronage, Pingala = Rationalism etc). Lots of examples.

I don’t think stuff from Civ V should be carried over unchanged or just for the sake of it. But I think there’s still lots of stuff from Civ V that deserves to be brought over provided it was adapted to Civ VI. That’s all.

Well we know about their rule of thirds from one edition to the next; and while I hope they run with exceptions to that where it makes sense, we also know that not everything that was in the last edition will be in the new one. If instead of looking at making 6 the best it can be, anyway they can...if instead of that, they're looking at a mechanic in 5 and going, "well, that's missing; let's add it"... I'll be very concerned.

 

[trev1972]

I voted its already bloated, but not sure if that is the right word, there are tonnes of features already but a few of them feel poorly thought out (religious combat) or are just annoying (World congress is the big one some of the votes are just daft, such as the early one when quite often ive only met a couple of civs (if on small continents) but they vote for something arbitrary such as to make whales not count as an amenity)

The NFP features look interesting however.

 

[hhhhhh]

I think all these alternative game modes are a bad thing for civ6. While it is true that you can turn them off, the resources used for developing them would better be spent in improving the core elements of the game. There is plenty room for improvement and i am afraid we will be getting more and more "optional" stuff.
I guess for Firaxis it is more wortwhile to add more rushed content than making the existing as good as possible.

+1 to this. Today I took a look at the Civ6save file and was astonished by how bloated it is. Can you believe they include the translation of "Deity" and "Industrial Era" in every single save file? (so the Civ6save file contains data that tells you "deity" is "Divindade" in Brazilian Portuguese, and it's single feminine!) What kind of horrendous programmer does this? I really feel sorry for a friend. He's a good player living in rural Spain. And when his internet is slow, he walk like 15 minutes midnight to the church (what he called a hermitage) to upload the save to our PYDT(PBEM) game. And this is what's inside.

So if anyone from Firaxis is listening... please, instead of adding vampire to the game would you please refactor some of your core code and make it more efficient?

 

[Stringer1313]

I don't think it's that bloated, though various features should cause tension for the player to resolve, i.e., pursue X victory at the expense of Y. The fact that you can easily simultaneously go for all victories (except for maybe conquest) without breaking a sweat is criminal.

If all the features are fun and interesting, then there is no bloat in my opinion, no matter how many features there are.

 

[Myomoto]

I don't think it's that bloated, though various features should cause tension for the player to resolve, i.e., pursue X victory at the expense of Y. The fact that you can easily simultaneously go for all victories (except for maybe conquest) without breaking a sweat is criminal.

If all the features are fun and interesting, then there is no bloat in my opinion, no matter how many features there are.

I disagree a bit. I like that a lot of the victories are synergistic with eachother, i.e. religion boosts CV, domination boosts RV, etc.

 

[steveg700]

Yeah, we're already soaking in it.

The game doesn't know how to play itself. Even a core system like religion. AI cities without religions completely opt out of spreading a particular religion, even if they have holy sites. A follower belief can be as good as anything a religion offers, and you certainly shouldn't want someone spraying Crusade around your empire.