Is there a point to annexing cities?

[Carl5872]

Up until my last game I was under the philosophy that I should try to annex each city after pupetting. Basically I would conquer a batch of cities and puppet all of them, then annex them one by one while keeping happiness just at positive. For example when happiness is at 5 annex one and that knockes it down to maybe 1 or possibly negative. Then build more happiness buildings and keep annexing them all. Only then would I resume war.

After reading some threads here, I now see very little benefit to annexing. There is an immediate happiness reduction to annexing, and policy costs go up. You can still improve the tiles as you see fit for a puppet, and still get its beakers, culture and gold.

So really the only benefit I can see of annexing besides control of production is that when a courthouse is built there is more happiness than a puppeted city.

With this being the case is it a good rule of thumb to only annex a city if you want more happiness and have the funds to immediately buy a courthouse after?

What are your thoughts on this subject?

 

[Randall Turner]

You should almost always just puppet, and frankly I think this is a bit of a balance bug. Everyone always puppets, and it's about the only way to go.

The only time you should annex a puppet is when you can -

Build a courthouse, a wonder, and all culture buildings thru Broadcast Tower. Like, instantly. (Lots of $$ + a Great Engineer.) That way, doesn't hurt your policy acquisition.

 

[kiitos]

I puppet probably 75% of cities when I'm conquering vast swathes of territory. I annex the others because I find that immediately buying the happiness buildings in these select cities nets more total happiness sooner, allowing me to continue city capturing.

 

[truefrequencie]

You summed up the position of annexing quite well. The only real benefit to annexing a city is control of production choices and the ability to rush-buy units. However, the drawbacks are considerable more damaging, increases social policy costs and happiness which is vitally important when heading for a domination victory. So for those reasons annexing a large number of conquered cities is usually not a good idea. Overall, I rarely annex cities but when I do its because (1) it's a good production city (first and foremost), (2) for rush-buying units closer to the front line, and (3) is vital to winning (i.e. a last city to build a spaceship part).

 

[Randall Turner]

Yep. Also note that a captured capitol with existing wonder is much more attractive than the "average" city.

 

[jbevermore]

Yep. Also note that a captured capitol with existing wonder is much more attractive than the "average" city.

Capitals in general are almost worth annexing just for the location, the fact that they almost always have wonders is just a bonus.

 

[chazzycat]

Well I like to annex a bit more than others it seems. Puppet empires are pretty powerful, but it really depends on the situation. For example, if I clear my continent very early, I will probably end up annexing all of the good production cities or anything on a river. Not right away, but as soon as I can afford to either build or buy courthouses.

The reason? Well, policy costs are important, but not the end-all be-all. Sometimes the benefits of controlling the cities can outweigh the increased policy cost, in my opinion. Puppets are stuck on gold focus and you cannot choose their production. This greatly limits their growth and productivity, as they will not work the best tiles and won't prioritize the production buildings like workshops. So, by the industrial/modern age, puppet cities are pretty weak economically compared with cities that you have managed effectively. Is this worth the increased policy cost? Well, to me the answer is at least "sometimes".

 

[Randall Turner]

Capitals in general are almost worth annexing just for the location, the fact that they almost always have wonders is just a bonus.

<shrug> playstyle. I'm policy-centric**. That wonder gives me the 100% bonus for "Constitution" policy w/o me having to burn a GE making one of my own. (If there even are any left to build, late-game.)

** - the reason I'm policy-centric is I like a peaceful game and a huge end-war with mature, large AI civs. You need every edge you can get to compete in that situation at the higher difficulty levels.

 

[jbevermore]

<shrug> playstyle. I'm policy-centric**. That wonder gives me the 100% bonus for "Constitution" policy w/o me having to burn a GE making one of my own. (If there even are any left to build, late-game.)

** - the reason I'm policy-centric is I like a peaceful game and a huge end-war with mature, large AI civs. You need every edge you can get to compete in that situation at the higher difficulty levels.

In all seriousness, why not just make a scenario for modern wars? Skip all the buildup?

 

[jbevermore]

<shrug> playstyle. I'm policy-centric**. That wonder gives me the 100% bonus for "Constitution" policy w/o me having to burn a GE making one of my own. (If there even are any left to build, late-game.)

** - the reason I'm policy-centric is I like a peaceful game and a huge end-war with mature, large AI civs. You need every edge you can get to compete in that situation at the higher difficulty levels.

In all seriousness, why not just make a scenario for modern wars? Skip all the buildup?

I love any type of war because they all present their own unique challenges. Last game got jumped by monty in the middle ages when I couldn't get my hands on iron to save my life. Luckily I had horses and some fantastic choke points for archery bombardment and fortresses. I was able to hold him off until I got gunpowder, then slowly pressed forward. Once I got cannon's he really broke. Hardest war I ever fought, and by far the most fun.

 

[bryanw1995]

Well I like to annex a bit more than others it seems. Puppet empires are pretty powerful, but it really depends on the situation. For example, if I clear my continent very early, I will probably end up annexing all of the good production cities or anything on a river. Not right away, but as soon as I can afford to either build or buy courthouses.

The reason? Well, policy costs are important, but not the end-all be-all. Sometimes the benefits of controlling the cities can outweigh the increased policy cost, in my opinion. Puppets are stuck on gold focus and you cannot choose their production. This greatly limits their growth and productivity, as they will not work the best tiles and won't prioritize the production buildings like workshops. So, by the industrial/modern age, puppet cities are pretty weak economically compared with cities that you have managed effectively. Is this worth the increased policy cost? Well, to me the answer is at least "sometimes".

This is a good answer. I've gone through phases where I'll raze everything, puppet everything, annex, etc etc. Lately I've been annexing more, though I look at my SP's first. As you stated, generally annexed cities are much more powerful later in the game, not least because it takes so much time/effort to artificially limit their growth.

 

[Randall Turner]

In all seriousness, why not just make a scenario for modern wars? Skip all the buildup?

It gives "context", ie, countries like/dislike you for particular reasons. The setup will vary depending on earlier developments. It's different every time. If I "cooked" a scenario, it'd be a one-off.

Plus, the early game is quick. It's the late game that takes all the time. <shrug> Actually, peaceful turns are always quick, late game war turns take all the time.

 

[Deau]

So really the only benefit I can see of annexing besides control of production is that when a courthouse is built there is more happiness than a puppeted city.

What are your thoughts on this subject?

Wrong, when you annex a city, unhappiness gets to 125%. If you build the courthouse, it drops back down to 100% which is exactly the same as a puppet. The primary reason for annexing is the controlled production. Especially if you need a coastal city and your capital isn't. Personally, I hardly ever annex and usually run my domination games, even on deity with a single city &mass puppets (sometimes a 2nd to settle iron if I can't get it from a CS).

There can be a point in time where mass annexing proves to be very good. This being said, it costs 2 or 3 SPs to grab "police state" to do so. Police state is alright if you had theocracy or TFP and is outstanding if you only had neither. Given I have been skipping theocracy on deity lately to use rationalism to throw mech infs super shortly after AIs get infantry, police state could be a very strong happiness policy for rapid conquest.

rough math
puppet 100% -> +theocracy OR TFP 75%
annex 125% -> + police state 62,5%
Net gain of 12,5% (more in a relative sense) and you DON'T have/shouldn't build any courthouse as building a courthouse will put your annexed cities to the state of regular cities @100% and will only get the theocracy or TFP modifier and no longer get police state benefits so building a courthouse after you got police state would net result into negative happiness.

Last, a decent reason to annex a city is to purchase units really fast near your front if you lost some. For example, if you are just getting done conquering a civ and only have say 2 melee front line left with 4 siege, you might want to annex and purchase to melee right away rather than being forced to wait to buy/build and travel all the way from your capital. This is especially true for total domination games where travelling from your capital may take forever.

 

[Kerosene31]

I never annex myself. With a cost of 4 maintenance on courthouses, I really want to avoid that. I always raze and re-settle, or puppet if a capital or CS. Managing a large empire without annexed cities is hard enough, I don't want to add on top of that. Puppets produce tons of gold, and there's never been a time where I wish I had less gold.

The only exception for me is if I really got boxed in and had too few core cities.

 

[KevinMiles90000]

Nothing beats just a capital and a massive puppet empire+CS. Ridiculous SP gains.

 

[Dai]

Barring unusual circumstances, I usually like to have 3-4 "real" cities, sometimes annexing a fourth/fifth late in the game. (Often on the other continent, if playing continents.) A not atypical pattern for me looks like this:

1) Capital
2) City with iron if capital has no iron; otherwise a city that complements the strengths of my capital and has as many luxuries as possible. (Production or science.)
3) Coastal city if no existing city is coastal. Preferably with decent production. This city may be annexed or built. Annexed capitals are often preferable because they are typically in great spots. It's a rare game where I don't want at least one coastal city.
4) City on the other continent primarily so I can rush-buy units there. This is nearly always annexed, since typically there's no decent locations left on the other continent when you reach it.

Another city may be built or annexed between 2 & 3 or between 3 & 4, depending on my strategy, my civ, the availability of desirable locations, what city states have, etc. This isn't like, a set of rules that I always follow, and I wouldn't recommend it as a recipe or anything like that; it's observationally what I tend to do, game after game, when evaluating my options. (Obviously this all goes out the window when going for cultural victory.)

 

[Randall Turner]

This is sound in principle, Dai, but there's always that one resource (coal, oil, alum, uran) that makes you decide between a war you don't want, a City-State ally you can't afford**, or popping that extra "mining" city.

I like to stay at four cities or under, but I inevitably end up with at least one of these resource mining boom-towns. (I play builder, rushers probably don't have this problem so much.)

** - the AI is getting a bit more agressive about bidding for CS's now.

 

[Alex_K]

I annex cities that have already been built up a lot. In other words, the ones I annex have lots of (useful) buildings that I won't have to build there. Those with few buildings I typically raze.

 

[roguepro92]

no.
puppet or raze.

 

[Ravellion]

Wrong, when you annex a city, unhappiness gets to 125%. If you build the courthouse, it drops back down to 100% which is exactly the same as a puppet.

No, puppets do have slightly higher unhappiness. They are somewhere in between puppets and annexed w/o courthouse. I forgot the full formula, but I believe it saves roughly 2 unhappiness in a size 10 city to annex and build a courthouse.