Is there a point to annexing cities?

[LostInTime]

There can be a point in time where mass annexing proves to be very good. This beeing said, it costs 2 or 3 SPs to grab "police state" to do so. Police state is alright if you had theocracy or TFP and is outstanding if you only had neither. Given I have been skipping theocracy on deity lately to use rationalism to throw mech infs super shortly after AIs get infantry, police state could be a very strong happiness policy for rapid conquest.

I've been trying that, and the result seems disappointing, I got no happy difference from annexing them (bug? I think I had theocracy as well, dunno if they stack) and leaving them as puppets. It's a shame because I like the autocracy three but I really can't go into it anymore since Theocracy/Freedom is pretty much what you need to keep up with happiness in huge empires, and Order seems a better pick for later so why bother go in there.

Seems kinda silly that Tradition/honor/autocracy isn't more viable for old school domination. (specialize a couple of key cities up early, go steal the rest) I still like to do it Civ4 style instead of this silly capitol stuff, I wish they would drop that, getting huge empires is a much better way to win. I really think they need to balance the happiness gains a little bit better, freedom and theocracy seems miles better than the rest.

 

[MisterBoomBoom]

The only time I will Annex is on large world maps where I need to build addition parts of a war machine as I leap frog across the globe in domination wins. Otherwise no need to take the happiness hit (even tho -kids- you should know never to take cities until you can easily absorb the happiness hits). And...you get the wonder production from puppeted cities so that does not factor in the decision at all.

I wish I could gift cities to CS's ...being able to truely create puppet CS civilizations would be fun.

 

[Goodenuf]

I typically will puppet cities, but find that if I start mid-continent and I take over a coastal city, I will then annex it so I have a coastal port for building ships. This is especially handy when I'm nearing the point of researching Astronomy, and I want to get caravels out to explore.

 

[lilnev]

I prefer to sell captured cities for large piles of cash and/or 30 turns of income, if possible. There won't always be a good buyer -- they prefer cities close to their borders, and some civs may already be broke. But when you can, it removes the unhappiness problem and fuels the war machine at the same time. I consider this when making peace, too. Remember that you can add things to a peace treaty. For example, I often trade back captured cities in exchange for other cities, closer to a potential buyer. The goals of war are to (1) Extract as much gold as possible, not just from the victim but from the neighbors as well, (2) Decapitate the civ, towards the Domination win. Typically I'll aim to capture about 1/2 to 2/3 of the "value" of a civ, including its capital (may be fewer than half the cities, but the larger ones). Leave them economically viable; I'll want to sign RAs, and possibly sell them resources. Make peace, extracting all their cash and income, and juggling cities until I get a set I like. Then sell most of those cities. Spend the gold on RA's, CS's, upgrades and (if there's any left) rush-buying. Choose the next victim.

But there's not always a good set of buyers. Then I usually puppet, and just tradepost spam it, and it'll be fine. I like SP's too much.

Late game, buyers dwindle. Puppets build up, and unhappiness may become a problem. The best solution, again, is to sell the cities that are causing the problem (large puppets that haven't built Theaters and don't bring in a unique luxury). If that's not possible, then I may have to annex to rush-buy some happiness so my troops don't lose effectiveness. There may come a point in the late game when I decide I'm not going to worry about any more SP's, and start annexing aggressively to get those happiness buildings up (and/or to raze the offending city down to a more appropriate size).

There are also some specific times to annex: When you need ocean access. When you need to claim a tile with a specific resource. When you need to rush-buy troops far from home (typically, another landmass).

And sometimes I'll capture a city with powerhouse potential early enough in the game that it's worth adopting as my own.

p.s. Don't forget to include a Research Agreement as part of the peace settlement.

 

[Deau]

p.s. Don't forget to include a Research Agreement as part of the peace settlement.

You should avoid putting RAs in any deal involving other stuff which could be broken. If you take a lux in a RA and the lux is lost (either city captured or tile pillaged) the RA gets broken as well

Thus it's best to not include a RA in, leave the AI with just enough gold for the RA and trade a RA appart.

 

[Deau]

No, puppets do have slightly higher unhappiness. They are somewhere in between puppets and annexed w/o courthouse. I forgot the full formula, but I believe it saves roughly 2 unhappiness in a size 10 city to annex and build a courthouse.

Right although it's partially a bug or at least it seems like it is.

The courthouse removes the extra unhappiness from occupied city.

reg cities AND puppets have a base 2 unhappiness per city and 1 unhappiness per citizen.

annexed cities (pre courthouse) have a base 5 unhappiness per city and 1.25 unhappiness per citizen.

building the courthouse fully removes the 5 unhappiness instead of removing the "extra 3" and removes the same 25% so unhappiness per citizen in courhoused cities is back to 1.

I am right about positive this is a bug but ain't gonna scout bug forums for it. Anyway point being, if you play as ghandi, you save 4 unhappiness everytime you annex+courthouse. If you play other civs, you save 2 unhappiness everytime you annex+courthouse. If you have the Planned economy in the order tree (SP), then you only save 1 unhappiness per city that you flipped from puppet to annexed+courthouse

 

[Im_An_Eejit]

I often annex cities which meant something in the grander scheme of things, think its a matter of pride. Or i often annex one in areas of the world where i have puppeted many - a base to rush units etc. if needed.

 

[joncnunn]

Yup, unless the city is good enough to produce the courthouse on it's own in a few turns once you reallocate the workers away from gold and into production. (If the city doesn't look like it could produce a court house in a reasonable time, it should be kept a puppet until you have the cash)

Often you'll want to closely follow those court house builds with Work Houses, Wind Mills, Colosseums, and Theatres in whatever order is more benifitial given your happiness level and the production level of the city.

With this being the case is it a good rule of thumb to only annex a city if you want more happiness and have the funds to immediately buy a courthouse after?

What are your thoughts on this subject?

 

[Randall Turner]

Right although it's partially a bug or at least it seems like it is.

The courthouse removes the extra unhappiness from occupied city.

reg cities AND puppets have a base 2 unhappiness per city and 1 unhappiness per citizen.

annexed cities (pre courthouse) have a base 5 unhappiness per city and 1.25 unhappiness per citizen.

building the courthouse fully removes the 5 unhappiness instead of removing the "extra 3" and removes the same 25% so unhappiness per citizen in courhoused cities is back to 1.

I am right about positive this is a bug but ain't gonna scout bug forums for it. Anyway point beeing, if you play as ghandi, you save 4 unhappiness everytime you annex+courthouse. If you play other civs, you save 2 unhappiness everytime you annex+courthouse. If you have the Planned economy in the order tree (SP), then you only save 1 unhappiness per city that you flipped from puppet to annexed+courthouse

This is a good summary of a complex situation, but I'd suggest actually saving the game, annexing, rush-buying the Courthouse, and picking your "default" citizen allocation. Then look at your happiness delta. Reason being that it gets even more complex depending on SP's active and how many specialist slots are optimal after annexation. (mild cheat, don't consider it an exploit, more of a "laziness" thing.)

Even after annexing literally dozens of cities, I find I'm sometimes still off in my "estimated happiness gain" by one or two due to specialist effects.

 

[pspboy7]

If I annex cities, it has to have a wonder, and even then It's usually has to be the (former) capital and in a strategic spot on the map. Puppets are a way better payoff in the long run, otherwise the costs to annexing really outway the benifits by a long shot, especially for domination games where culture costs are vital. Maybe in future patches they will allow for more benefits to annexing cities? Who knows...

 

[Deau]

This is a good summary of a complex situation, but I'd suggest actually saving the game, annexing, rush-buying the Courthouse, and picking your "default" citizen allocation. Then look at your happiness delta. Reason being that it gets even more complex depending on SP's active and how many specialist slots are optimal after annexation. (mild cheat, don't consider it an exploit, more of a "laziness" thing.)

Even after annexing literally dozens of cities, I find I'm sometimes still off in my "estimated happiness gain" by one or two due to specialist effects.

Ah thanks on that, I only did that quick review of the actual math after Ravellion's reply. I definitely did not try weird cases. Nice to see it's even more buggy than it may appear .

 

[BukoJuko]

i sometimes annex a city closer to the warfront if i need to reinforce a little faster