Is there a Reason to be anything but Amurites?

[Bill Bisco]

Yes most certainly elves can be fun and I made a previous thread about their power. And yes most certainly every civ can be fun. However, I'm playing in a competitive environment and I want to know what the most powerful civilizations and combinations out there that will win the game against human players. (AI players can get beat by almost anything).

Btw, the only time I had fun playing Doviello is by being Charadon on a Deity 18 Civ Marathon Tiny Pangea map, where my starting units killed all Scouts passing by for a lot of XP and the High XP Warriors subsequently proceeded to Raze every city on the map. The AI couldn't build warriors fast enough to counter mine, they had an excess amount of warriors because of Deity. That was to-date my only Deity game win.

 

[Bill Bisco]

I just played a game as Luchirup and wow, yeah they are a contender. When you said Financial was nice you weren't kidding. But yeah, I had so many beakers, these techs were like candy!

So yeah, on my list of civs that win the game:

Luchirup
Amurite

 

[JFSebastian]

Lanun next?

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

welcome to FFH mate. everyone is special, in their own way...

 

[Broken Hawk]

Bannor Crusade...again.
For something new, try the Khazad. Fill the vaults and get the hammers going. Unstoppable.

 

[Worm4life]

I always thought the Donviello were pointless because with them you're basically just playing Civ 4 all over again.

 

[Jet]

Never mind.

 

[Tasunke]

all you people that say Firebows are late game .... well I DIDNT rush Firebows yet I had them available at turn 150. That means Hyborem or Tasunke has that many turns (half that many for a good Hyborem player) to find me and kill me, before my FOL (yes FOL) amurites get Firebows. In that particular game, I also had Ironworking at turn 177, and Beastmasters at turn 185 or so.

I have NEVER teched Sorcery in my past couple games. Only vampyres with Calabim and Firebows with Amurites. and the ONLY way the vampires can kill firebows is by having more catapults. Alot more. Collateral is powerful in mp. Quite powerful. I used catapults to kill a stack of Firebows + bambur that were sitting across a river in ancient forest. The finishing blow was done by some hastily made, low level vampyre.


its a defensive unit with fireballs ... win win ^_^

(from the pedia it sounds as if firebows are meant to merely "protect" the mages as they work and become the "elleged" true power of the Amurites, but I have found that bowyers is really only that far away if you think anyother units are worth building ... which they arent, exept maybe catapults ) The only unit I can even think could even begin to possibly counter firebows would be 1. Lanun OO on the open water, or 2. Meshhaber of Dis on land.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

all you people that say Firebows are late game .... well I DIDNT rush Firebows yet I had them available at turn 150. That means Hyborem or Tasunke has that many turns (half that many for a good Hyborem player) to find me and kill me, before my FOL (yes FOL) amurites get Firebows. In that particular game, I also had Ironworking at turn 177, and Beastmasters at turn 185 or so.

That was a quick speed game, though, wasn't it? Those figures would adjust to roughly 225, 265, 277 for normal.

 

[Bill Bisco]

I was in a game with Firebows at around Turn 89 in Quick. So they're pretty viable I'd say.

 

[Senethro]

I was in a game with Firebows at around Turn 89 in Quick. So they're pretty viable I'd say.

Iron Orb event? Multiple Great Engineers?

 

[Bill Bisco]

No, I just had a good starting location and minimal barb interference. I had a working army at about turn 103 or so. If I had a worse location it might have been turn 120 or so before I was able to build firebows.

 

[readercolin]

Now lets compare that to the khazid. Right now, normal speed game, I'm running around with an army of axmen and catapults (turn 160 - equivalent to about turn 80 I believe for quick), and every city can crank out an axman/catapult per turn. To be honest though, you won't see the benifit of the khazid if you play on quick. On quick, anyone can build a unit in a single turn pretty easily. On normal, most civs it only takes a turn or two. On epic - now only the khazid or a city with heroic epic can produce a unit a turn.

And as for army size - it currently consists of about a dozen catapults and about 50 axmen + bambur (supported by 5 cities). Do you realy think that fireball summoning can outdo production like that?

-Colin

 

[Tasunke]

hehe, maybe science heavy civs do have their strengths revealed on quick speed then ^_^ ... although any other speed and I play hippus ... and then everyone loses

 

[Bill Bisco]

Quick is .666666 research and production speed of Normal. So turn 160 is about turn 107.

Firebow production won't outdo Axemen production. However, Each Firebow created is essentially 2 units and then some since each fireball creates collateral damage, can attack, kill with no limits, and reduce city defenses; the Firebows are competent attackers in their own right who can also use copper and iron.

So my bet is that with the hammers it takes to build your Axemen, the same # of hammers spent building Firebows will beat them.

Remember, the Amurites can and will build the Heroic Epic for +100% military production as well. Similarly, assuming a decent start, the Amurites will beat the Khazad to Runes of Kilmorph and Bambur. The only way for Khazad to beat this is to pop a great Prophet. However, the Amurites could also Pop a Great Prophet for RoK if they wished and could do it before the Khazad could Pop a Great Prophet.

But anyway, why don't you go onto Hamachi sometime and we can test the theory of Amurites vs. Khazad if you wish. Just face me or Tasunke there. I'll be on and off next week.

Peace,
Bill

 

[Senethro]

No, I just had a good starting location and minimal barb interference. I had a working army at about turn 103 or so. If I had a worse location it might have been turn 120 or so before I was able to build firebows.

I'm sure you have to be mistaken as don't Longbows have a tech cost comparable to Iron Working as well as having some significant tech requirements that are far from the typical economic line?

 

[Tasunke]

no no ... ive seen him rok it at turn 120 with decent terrain. I was getting vampires and catapults, whie he had a stack of firebows and bambur.

 

[Senethro]

120 Quick or 120 Normal? Because turn 89 on Quick is about turn 135 on Normal. If people could reliably tech to Tier 3 that fast then about 80% of all civs would be unable to compete.

 

[Tasunke]

hmm, the turn 120 was from a test on quickspeed, as to the actual battle, I couldn't be bothered at looking to what year it was.

On another note I was able to summon Hyborem in MP around turn 80 or so. (maybe 83?) I was quite proud considering I was neighbor to 3 lizard lairs, and I had no commerce resources at my capital city.

(I did a two city strat, using great prophet pops as Alexis, second city had 3 cotton tiles, eventually 4 with the culture pop)

 

[Monkeyfinger]

In a 1v1 you have no reason to really bother with advanced economic techs. Just get a couple basics like education, mysticism and something like calendar if you have the right resources, then rush straight for your key military tech (bowyers for amurites, feudalism for calabim, etc.)

That your economy will hit a wall after doing this and crash outright if you conquer somebody won't matter if you only have the one opponent to knock out.

On a tiny map, noble difficulty (the kind of setting you might expect to play a small MP game with no AIs on), I got bowyers on turn 136 with Dain, normal speed (the equivalent of 91 on quick)....

...with a capital that's good but not the kind of super awesome beast certain people like to use as lube to jack off over finishing the tech tree in 280 turns.

I skipped RoK, a mistake in hindsight. By the time my epic journey to bowyers was finished, it would have taken 5 turns, so the turn figures for bowyers there would be like 140.

At this point I go 100% gold + firebows in all cities. By turn 150 (100 on quick) I have 6 and growing:

Increasing map size and difficulty to what most players are accustomed to would lengthen research times, even with no AIs involved, since those variables directly affect tech costs even with no other factors considered. This partially explains the kneejerk reaction that these kinds of figures are flukes if not outright BS.

None of this changes the facts that other civs can do this kind of tech rush, and that the Luchuirp in particular can go for the same thing only faster and with a better early military and better future prospects should the rush peter out (or if there's more than 2 players), and that a highly focused tech rush like this with a squishy leader like Dain puts you at risk of being rushed and wiped by someone like Tasunke or Kandros before you can get archery let alone bowyers, and that playing these types of games in the first place in a game which is designed for a larger SP experience and which has a whole bunch of random factors to turn competitive MP into an unholy cluster. .. .. .. . is really silly. But the turn figures are achievable.

The saves use Sephi's modmod. It doesn't alter gameplay the way I have it set up (as just an AI + interface enhancer) but it will cause compatibility issues if you try to load it using standard FfH.