Is there any reason to have external trade routes?

[Forbiddentwo]

Both in general, and specifically for Poland.

It seems like internal trade routes are way better, and even with Poland's UB that's still the case because with an internal trade route you have two of your cities getting + food and hammers in addition to the bonus gold, whereas with an external trade route you only get a max of +2 hammers to one city, plus some gold.

I guess religious pressure from a trade route is another factor, but... has anyone worked out the math behind that? Is it very effective?

Even if it is, is there much point to using trade routes that way as opposed to taking the traditional apostle spam route (or is missionary spam better)?

 

[CBE Player]

Production vs money...What you need is what you go for. Other stuff like culture will be minimum and does not affect(1 of anything for single trade route) later when you say have 15 or more routes then extra science might be worth it.

 

[Forbiddentwo]

Production vs money...What you need is what you go for. Other stuff like culture will be minimum and does not affect(1 of anything for single trade route) later when you say have 15 or more routes then extra science might be worth it.

So production, always and forever.

 

[CBE Player]

I usually mix it up according to the settings and map/style I am playing. Dif settings can make you adjust also.
Production rules for most of the time but when you are in need of gold to upgrade or purchase buildings...
Just use what you need for the immediate play, and change when necessary. There are other concerns in game too, like the policies that give you extra for trading with other major civs rather than internal ones.

 

[Halcyan2]

External trade routes can net you envoys with city state quests.

External trade routes increase your tourism by +25% (more with the right Great Merchants) with major civs.

External trade routes with major civs net you a small diplomatic bonus with them.

External trade routes can establish road infrastructure in areas you want.

External trade routes tend to net more gold (as opposed to internal routes which yield more food and production).

 

[Forbiddentwo]

External trade routes increase your tourism by +25% (more with the right Great Merchants) with major civs.

How many do I need to get that effect, just one?

 

[Halcyan2]

How many do I need to get that effect, just one?

Just one. But if you are going for the Cultural Victory route, you will want to devote at least one trade route to each Major Civ to get the +25% with each one of them.

 

[ShinigamiKenji]

Don't forget that Globalization (an end Civic) have a policy that gives +5 production and +10 gold to every international trade route. It also obsoletes Triangular Trade, which gives +4 gold and +1 faith from internal trade routes, so in the end game international trade routes might be more attractive than internal.

 

[Bowman in a Bad Mood]

Both in general, and specifically for Poland.

It seems like internal trade routes are way better, and even with Poland's UB that's still the case because with an internal trade route you have two of your cities getting + food and hammers in addition to the bonus gold, whereas with an external trade route you only get a max of +2 hammers to one city, plus some gold.

I guess religious pressure from a trade route is another factor, but... has anyone worked out the math behind that? Is it very effective?

Even if it is, is there much point to using trade routes that way as opposed to taking the traditional apostle spam route (or is missionary spam better)?

Is OP's premise correct, that an internal TR gives its benefits to both source and destination city?

 

[Agent327]

No. The question should rather be: Is there any reason to have internal trade routes? (Yes. Because especially in early game it can boost production of a newly founded city.)

 

[Forbiddentwo]

No.

@ Bowman in a Bad Mood?

Because if so, that derails my plan to build a Polish UB in my capital and have my trade routes going from it rather than to it (so that I could put off making the UB in every city for a bit while I focus on bolstering my infrastructure/military).

Doesn't the trade window that comes up when you need to assign a caravan to a route have a section for what benefits a sending city would get, and what benefits a receiving city gets?

 

[Victoria]

Internal routes go one way so you need to send them to the outlying city and start the route from there.
Initially internal trade routes are far superior. The only exception I know of is if you want to do a culture rush with Kumasi.
Triangular trade is not far up the tree really and boosts gold into those routes also.
I will trade externally to get the CS envoys and occasionally when a good gold boost is required.

Trade routes do not affect religious spread... I did a lot of testing on this.
I am unsure if trade routes affect politics

For tourism... if they make a trade route to you that also counts as a trade route to them!

 

[johnny_rico]

Internal routes go one way so you need to send them to the outlying city and start the route from there.
Initially internal trade routes are far superior. The only exception I know of is if you want to do a culture rush with Kumasi.
Triangular trade is not far up the tree really and boosts gold into those routes also.
I will trade externally to get the CS envoys and occasionally when a good gold boost is required.

Trade routes do not affect religious spread... I did a lot of testing on this.
I am unsure if trade routes affect politics

For tourism... if they make a trade route to you that also counts as a trade route to them!

That last bit in interesting. I presume this generates the +25% tourism.

 

[FurballRocker]

That last bit in interesting. I presume this generates the +25% tourism.

TBH i haven't really tested if it works both ways although i 'think' it seems to but by that time i usually have a huge number of trade routes to go around as i build commercial hubs in all cities and harbours where possible so i can spare a few trade routes to ensure the bonus is always flowing.i.e. (if it does go both ways) it doesn't stop because they stop sending their trade route to me.

For the original question. In general i default to trade routes going internally unless the external trade route can give me something i am lacking such as:-

• Early science from a scientific CS
• Envoys from a trade route quest
• The fore mentioned tourism bonus
• Early gold before i have my commercial district running to stop me going negative
• Building a road to a civ i intend to attack
• Building a road to a CS i wish to protect
• Diplomatic bonus to a civ i want to try to be friends with or just extra diplomatic sight so i can see there hidden agendas or more of what they are up to
• etc

In short external trade routes are generally have situational benefits covering short term need.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

City state quests or building road to a future city.

So generally no.

 

[chazzycat]

they are better for culture victory, towards the end of the game after you've finished the civic tree and don't care much about growing cities.

 

[Victoria]

That last bit in interesting. I presume this generates the +25% tourism.

Yes but it will also have all the other tourism trade route modifiers if you have them. Fully tested... and as you can see their trade routes on the map you can always stop yours if they have one to you
This is why I settle cities all around the world when playing... the AI seems to like close Cities.

 

[Captain Potato]

Don't forget that Globalization (an end Civic) have a policy that gives +5 production and +10 gold to every international trade route. It also obsoletes Triangular Trade, which gives +4 gold and +1 faith from internal trade routes, so in the end game international trade routes might be more attractive than internal.

Trouble with that is that you've got to "switch over" at some point, which is going to be costly (you're not going to switch every trade route in one turn, yet you have to make the policy switch right there and then). Since it's so late in the game I've always just left globalisation unlearned and kept to internal trade routes.

 

[ShinigamiKenji]

Trouble with that is that you've got to "switch over" at some point, which is going to be costly (you're not going to switch every trade route in one turn, yet you have to make the policy switch right there and then). Since it's so late in the game I've always just left globalisation unlearned and kept to internal trade routes.

Actually, I've used it only for a short time, while I waited for some space parts to be built. But I planned accordingly: I used all spare trade routes externally, and began redirecting those old routes, so I didn't feel that much of a hit.

 

[Victoria]

In my last game I found my external trade roures gave great visibility, especially at sea. I has suze of lisbon so it was not an issue. In fact I lost no trade routes to plunder in the game.