Is there enough interest for another PYL?

Bleys

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I have some ideas for a workaround on the issue of improper AI bonuses, namely, 7 separate WB files, one for each Leader, and a "suggestion" that the games be played at Monarch or above (since making the AIs have the proper techs at Monarch and Prince would requite 14 WB Saves, 7 with Archery, 7 without, and I am not going there, LOL).

But I dont want to do all that work if there isnt enough interest in the concept. I thought the first one went pretty well, a lot of cool looking final-maps depending who played what Leader, which was exactly what I was looking for. Saddly, I never finished my Pacal game, I got caught up in other projects and RL got a bit hectic at the same time, but now I have some free time coming up, so do you, the Community, want another PYL?

If yes, what "concept" do we want to try this time? Some of the ideas suggested in the other threads were cool, like all the "North and South American" leaders, or another "All 1-trait" set, like CRE or IND leaders (or any, really), or all the "Biggest Backstabbers" type thing, with Alex, Catherine, et al, or all the "Nutjob" leaders like Monty and Toku and some others, maybe the "best Water Map AIs", and have Willem again, this time with Ragnar, Joao . . . hmm, maybe there arent enough of that type . . . . but you get the point.

The 7 WB files isnt too big a deal to create, either, so no worries about that. Minor editing is all thats involved, but this time there will be no Warrior Rushing, and the AIs will not tech slower or be slower to Wonders (not knowing Archery causes it ALL, BTW, since AIs now have to tech it themselves, so get a bunch of turns late on other techs, and the Wonders opened by those techs).

So lets hear some ideas, or even "It kinda sucked" if thats how you feel, I am a big boy and can absolutely handle criticism. I enjoyed the thread, and I think a lot who played it found the concept interesting enough for at least another round, but if not, no worries.
 
I really liked it as it was. I'll play that and the newest NC shortly. I'm a bit bogged down with RL stuff but it should loosen up a bit after this week. At least enough to play :p.
 
Yes! Make another one. I think the first one was a big success and saw a lot of games. I would definitely like another one.

The Americans would be a good one.
Pacal
Montezuma
Washington
Lincoln
Roosevelt
HC
Sitting Bull

The only problem would be that when Montezuma asked you to stop trading with the Americans you wouldn't know which one he meant, but besides that i think it'd be a good game. At least they'll all be different colors on the minimap. The map should be a pangaea map, preferably one that's longer vertical, so it at least resembles America.

Or you could do the same thing with Asian civs.

Tokugawa
Qin
Wang Kon
Genghis
Survayaman
Asoka

Or similar themes with europe and the middle east and africa.

Or you could do a game with all the female leaders

or you could do a game of 20th century leaders

Or you could get a little goofier.



The battle of the 'stache. All civs with hairy lips but without beards.
Bismarck
Ghandi
Degaulle
Louis
Mansa
Peter
Stalin
Tokugawa


or the battle of the beards, which is a theme that could field at least 2 games worth of leaders.

or the greyhairs.
The Caesars, Bismark, Washington, Roosevelt, Frederick, Churchill (the little left), Ghandi.

Or a game with the most peaceful civs.
Ghandi
Elizabeth
Lincoln
Mansa
Pacal
Pericles
Qin Shi Huang (this will probably surprise most people, but his aggression level is rated "quite low")
Roosevelt
 
Make it a poll?

And yes, it was an interesting concept. It's a shame that there's an issue with higher difficulty levels, but outside of raging barbarians or warrior rushes I don't think it's a big issue.
 
I'd like to see this series continue, I didn't do too well in the last one! tried three times and screwed up three times, so please post a new one just for me. :D

If the world builder file is set to play on monarch, playing it on prince would just mean the AI starts with Archery right? thats fine by me, kind of like Prince+, hell! I might even try a tougher level if I have to.

As for Ideas for leader groups well, BalbanesBeoulve has covered alot of ground there (with beards and stuff) all good ideas. Another idea might be to pick leaders who all share a UU from the same era could be interesting, like...

Greece - Phlanx
Sumeria - Vulture
Rome - Preats (or maybe not, OP?)

That kind of thing.

I did kind of like the shared trait idea in the first one, would be interesting to play with all industrious leaders, kind of like a race to wonders!

Thanks for putting these games up man! :) I havn't played on offline game since I started playing these.
 
It's a shame that there's an issue with higher difficulty levels, but outside of raging barbarians or warrior rushes I don't think it's a big issue.
As I said in the initial post, the higher difficulty has a workaround. 7 WB Files, and its not a big deal to do, easy copy/paste stuff once the initial WB save is built.

And yes Groo, playing at Prince would have the AIs starting with Archery, but thats a pretty strong advantage, since they dont have to tech it. It is a bit more "Prince Plus" than playing the NC games at Monarch is "Monarch Light", if you follow.

As for a poll, I suppose I could make one, but I would just rather make an "executive decision" about the next "concept", based on the general feel I get from those who post their ideas and preferences. Thats been working pretty well for the NC games. Mostly what I want is a selection that has a good chance of getting at least a player or two for each leader.

Right now, I am actually leaning toward "Backstabbers" and using Alex, Cathy, Boudi, Joao, maybe Ragnar and Toku although they just tend to be harder to get along with. Any other known backstabbers? (those who will DoW at pleased if the situation is right, basically).
 
I'll do the Prince and below WBsaves if you wish, just PM me. I played mine at Monarch (Pacal, holkan rush, never again, barb city settled on copper which hurt me greatly...) and just went into WB and gave the AIs archery.
 
And yes Groo, playing at Prince would have the AIs starting with Archery, but thats a pretty strong advantage, since they dont have to tech it. It is a bit more "Prince Plus" than playing the NC games at Monarch is "Monarch Light", if you follow.

well should be a good stepping stone to monarch then. :)

Right now, I am actually leaning toward "Backstabbers" and using Alex, Cathy, Boudi, Joao, maybe Ragnar and Toku although they just tend to be harder to get along with. Any other known backstabbers? (those who will DoW at pleased if the situation is right, basically).

I do like this idea, picking leaders based on the way the AI uses them. Another one would be the biggest 'Rexers'.

I'm happy for you to make the "Executive Decision", you havn't let us down yet. :)
 
Right now, I am actually leaning toward "Backstabbers" and using Alex, Cathy, Boudi, Joao, maybe Ragnar and Toku although they just tend to be harder to get along with. Any other known backstabbers? (those who will DoW at pleased if the situation is right, basically).

Remove Joao from the list. he doesn't dow at pleased and can only be bribed to attack those he is annoyed or furious with. The majority of the warmongers are backstabbers, with a few exceptions (Hannibal, the celts, Mehmed, and Justinian). While Mansa will rarely dow on his own, he is one of the easiest civs to bribe to start a war.

Qin, Victoria, Willem, Mao, Louis, Alex, Catherine, Montezuma are the civs with a 20% chance to dow at pleased. The rest are either 10% or 0%. You already used Willem, but a game with the other 7 would be pretty balanced and provide a good variety.
 
@Bleys
I didn't read your initial post. The poll was for general interest, not a specific variant. And I'm glad to hear you're willing to put in the extra time to return the higher difficulties to their appropriate settings.

How about an all Imperialistic game? GGs should (hopefully) be popping like crazy.
 
Qin, Victoria, Willem, Mao, Louis, Alex, Catherine, Montezuma are the civs with a 20% chance to dow at pleased. The rest are either 10% or 0%. You already used Willem, but a game with the other 7 would be pretty balanced and provide a good variety.
I like this set, I think it has something for everyone trait-wise, and will test even the best of diplomats at any level.

@Bleys
I didn't read your initial post. The poll was for general interest, not a specific variant. And I'm glad to hear you're willing to put in the extra time to return the higher difficulties to their appropriate settings.
Ah, ok. Well, I think there has already been enough interest to justify another game, OP has only been up a couple hours. So yes, going for it once we decide on a theme. The Backstabber list above is the front runner . . .

How about an all Imperialistic game? GGs should (hopefully) be popping like crazy.
. . . but one like this is a close 2nd. I was thinking Imp or Pro, myself, the so-called "lower tier" traits. It could get some players thinking differently about them. I know I gained a lot of respect for PRO when playing Gilga and Churchill recently. I am a "Nationalism from Lib, bee-line Rifles, draft an army, gg" kind of guy, and those babies were insanely unstoppable, especially drafted because of the limited XP from other Civics/Buildings/settled GGs. I have yet to really play a serious Imp game other than an LHC, so thats another good idea.

Groo, REXers is another beauty, Sury, Pacal, name some more nasty fast REXers. Good idea for a future one for sure.

Nutjobs is also in the mix, Monty, Toku, Shaka, LOL, it would be a fun game, for sure.

Nice input guys, keep those ideas coming. Heck, I may even start a poll for the next "crew" after this one, if it goes smoothly enough.

Quotey, I may take you up on that offer to do the Prince and below saves as well. I want to see how many this site will let me pack into a ZIP first, I may just do it myself, its really not a ton of work, just a lot of uploading, but if I pack em all into 2 ZIPs (A Monarch and above set, and a Prince and below set), and instruct players to only worry about pulling out the leader they wish to play, or something like that, it may be OK. Its just text, should compress pretty well. Will work on it this week, run some tests, etc.
 
I'm definatley warming to the idea of 'the backstabbers' should make a really interesting game for me as I favour peace over war.

All the other ideas are pretty sound too!
 
How about a religious freak game?

Starring Isabella, Justinian I, Saladin, Charlemagne, Asoka and Zara Yaqob! (man, all that Theocracy is gonna be a *$@%#)

Or a wonder hog game...staring Louis XIV, Bismarck, Suryavarman II, Huayna Capac, Pacal II, Ramesses II and Augustus Caesar! :D
 
Another idea might be to pick leaders who all share a UU from the same era could be interesting, like...

Greece - Phlanx
Sumeria - Vulture
Rome - Preats (or maybe not, OP?)

That kind of thing.

That's a good one too. Let me see if i can group them off the top of my head.

Ancient Era
Babylon - Bowman
Mali - Skirmisher

Egypt - War Chariot
Persia - Immortal

Zulu - Imp
Maya - Holkan

Native America - Dog Soldier
Greece - Phlanx
Sumeria - Vulture

India - Fast Worker (lol)

Classical Era
Carthage - Numidian Cavalry
Mongolia - Keshik

Aztec - Jaguar
Celt - Gallic Warrior
Rome - Praetorian

Korea - Hwacha

Khmer - Ballista Elephant


Medieval Era
Japan - Samurai
Viking - Berserker

Holy Roman Empire - Landsnecht

Byzantine - Cataphract
Arabian - Camel Archer

China - Chokonu

Portugal - Carrack


Renaissance Era
Spain - Conquistador

Ottoman - Jannisary
France- Musketeer
Ethiopia - Oromo Warrior

England - Rifleman

Russia - Cossack

Dutch - East Indiaman



Other

Germany - Panzer
America - Navy Seal
 
Qin, Victoria, Willem, Mao, Louis, Alex, Catherine, Montezuma are the civs with a 20% chance to dow at pleased. The rest are either 10% or 0%. You already used Willem, but a game with the other 7 would be pretty balanced and provide a good variety.
If you want an 8th civ, I recommend Isabella. She also dows at pleased, and is a serious diplomatic pain in the butt anyway.

Make sure that the starting positions are somewhat more balanced than last time. I think Willem (and Pacal) had too easy a start compared to the rest of the civs.
 
Make sure that the starting positions are somewhat more balanced than last time. I think Willem (and Pacal) had too easy a start compared to the rest of the civs.
I wouldn't worry about this aspect too much - it's part of the attraction of the game and shows how much easier or harder a level can become simply based on the start position.

A backstabbers game would be fun, especially since the last one was full of peacemongers. Besides, it'd give me the chance to pick Qin and do an Oracle/Forge GE-machinery pop for a super early Chok rampage :D
 
I'd be interested in this. I haven't played much civ lately, so this would be a way to make it fun again. :) Backstabbers sounds interesting. Same UU isn't bad either, but in case of early UUs I'd probably just skip war altogether in the first eras. Medieval/Renaissance sound like the most interesting.
 
OK guys, Backstabbers it is! Watch for the new thread to go up sometime today. I have to babysit my step-daughters kids for a while, but after that, I will start working on the WB files.

Quotey, if I can get it all in 2 ZIPS and they arent too big for me to upload, I will do both versions myself. However, if I have to split them up into a single ZIP for each leader, then I will ask you to grab them all, edit them for Prince and Below (by simply removing the extra techs in each leaders "Team" definition in each file) and re-upload them. I am thinking it will let me pack 7 WB saves into one ZIP, and it wont be too big.

Also, I am substituting Izzy for Mao in the list from the above post, so we dont have 2 Chinas. Its going to be Alex, Cathy, Qin, Izzy, Vicky, Louis and Monty on a Standard Pangaea with Natural shoreline, and all default settings the rest of the way. Remember, this time, Warrior Rushing wont work on Monarch and above, since the AIs WILL get their proper bonus techs, and therefor will be given Archers instead of Warriors as "best defensive unit".

Next one I am leaning toward is IMP leaders, or Wonder-Hog leaders, but since Qin and Louis are in this one, Wonder Hogs should wait a big. Great ideas though guys, I am glad to see so many enjoying the idea.
 
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